Dante #1: Paradise Cantos 1-5

Thank you, John. So, hello and welcome. My name is Carol Lee Rafferty. I am a Yale College alumna and John's

For the We saw each other at Yale.

For those new to Yale Center Beijing, Yale Center Beijing since 2014 is Yale University's first university-wide center outside of its campus and a place for intellectual dialogue and the exchange of ideas. Through workshops such as today's, we seek to advance the Yale University mission to create, disseminate, and preserve knowledge. So, why are we here?

Yale's motto is lux et veritas in Latin and urim vetummim in Hebrew, which means light and truth. So through the exploration of Dante and the great books, we hope you will beauty, light, and truth, and also be able to wrestle with humanity's oldest questions. What does it mean to be human? How should we live? What is worth striving for? And that's why we're so excited to be doing this workshop together.

And Dante will answer these questions. And without further ado, I'll turn back to Jeong and begin our journey with Dante and the great books.

Okay. Thank you so much. Okay. So, as you can see from the screen, we will be using this website that anyone can use. It's all free. The website address is So, the Divine Comedy is divided into three parts: Inferno, Purgatorio, and What we will do, which is very strange, is we are going to actually start in part three. It will become obvious to you over time why we're doing that, okay? So today we are going to start with canto one of Paradiso. And the translation we will use is Mandelbaum, I'll let it Mandelbaum.

So And you need to either use a handheld or press down on one of your mics.

Yeah, continuously. Thanks.

Heaven is a place of fulfillment, peace, and harmony where every entity can coexist. Negative feelings and behavior do not occur. We feel elevated by the fact that it feels like a destination and we are the best versions of ourselves. It's like we're above all what we have been through, to only keep the best. Heaven has more to my eyes of a feeling aspect than a visual one. I could still imagine having a bright, vibrant colors, flowers, and Great, that's beautiful.

Thank you so Anyone else? Yes.

Personally I do not believe in the existence of heaven. Or, if by some chance it does exist, I do not believe in its ubiquity.

Yeah, that's not the answer I want, yeah, well, that doesn't surprise me as I didn't really know what you were going to want. If there exists a heaven in any means of the word for any religion, I would think that it's a place of joy, but also of exclusion and stagnation. The ideas of heaven are so radically different from one religion to another that reconciliation seems impossible. In which case, heaven must be segregated. There is no change in heaven, it being by definition a deathless and perfect place. And so heaven is stagnation.

Okay. So that's very interesting because to answer this question, you're using logic and reason. And this is something that they might ask you to do on the AP literature examination. For this class, if we're truly to embrace Dante, we have to use our intuition and imagination, okay? That's something that will become much more clear as we read Dante, but the imagination is what will lead you to a truth, all right? We have someone here? Yes?

To me, paradise is a place for eternal pea- peace and happiness. There's no past and future, just Everyone there are full of meaning and purpose. The kind of joy and beauty in heaven is unfathomable. All the love and consciousness is intertwined together.

That's beautiful, yeah. So perfection, something that is pure joy, beyond our imagination. Yeah, good. Anyone else? Yes?

I think it's where God is. So it's the typical Christian and Catholic view of life everlasting in the presence of God. Eternal life singing and worshipping God and doing whatever you love most in your little house and mansion that God has rewarded you based on what you have done in your present life, I guess.

Yeah, so that's very interesting because what you just said is exactly what Augustine wrote in The City of God. He heaven as a place where you are right beside God and you're all singing together in unison. Have you read Augustine before?

Okay, well that's a very Augustinian answer. Yes?

Hello, can you hear me?

I think heaven's for us to meet God and to have a spiritual and intellectual connection with God and other divine forces. It's a place where we put down our ego and fear and engage in the act of a salvation and personal Good, yeah.

So ego and fear are things that bind us to this material world. Thank you. Yes?

Okay, you hear me? Okay. So as if I were to inhabit, and maybe Bruce Lee would lead me to the Kung Fu universe, because I'm a big fan of Bruce Lee and Kung Fu and his philosophy, and I could see my grandma and her smiling at me and embrace me into the arms. And I also can see the tree light stuffs and wish can let people see the messages from the living world. And people who come from the living world would be nice to come to this new world, and since there's no rule, no law, but only the people who believe in your faith and destiny.

So what you're saying is that heaven is individualized, meaning that whatever you perceive it is, it becomes. Okay, that's a very interesting idea. Any more All right, good. All right. So let's begin, all right? So we're going to go to Canto 1 of Paradise. And we're going to use the Mandelbaum translation. And to set context, again, there are three different parts to the Divine Comedy. There's Inferno, there's Purgatory, and then there is Paradise. And what's happening is that the Divine Comedy, it is a pilgrim's journey where Dante is traveling across the universe in order to meet God.

Okay. "The glory of the One who moves all things penetrates the universe and glows in one part more and in another less."

Wait. All right. So we're going to analyze these three lines. But before I do so, I want to introduce you to two literary concepts that we will be using a lot when we analyze the Divine Comedy. The first is the idea of paradox. And this is actually the main literary device that Dante will use for the Divine Comedy, where things are not as simple as they seem. There's a contradiction in the idea, and it is your responsibility to try to unpack or reconcile the contradiction. And through this process, it is going to heighten your imagination and draw you closer to God, okay?

Well, I'm just shooting in the dark here. I'm not sure if I'm right, but I would think that the glory of the one who moves all things. By definition, God is omnipotent and omnipresent. However, it says in the third line that it permeates the universe and it goes in one part more and in another less, meaning that there's inequality even in Yeah, that's exactly correct.

Okay, that's a paradox. God can be everywhere at once, yet there are certain parts where he is more and certain parts where there is less. That is a contradiction. That is a paradox. Why would God, who is all-powerful, why would the universe be constructed in a way like this? Okay, that's the central paradox that the Divine Comedy is trying to address. But then, what are the possibilities? How can we reconcile this paradox? Yes?

I think that it's maybe present Oh, sorry. I think maybe it's because, like, for example, God is more present in heaven, but for example, in the Inferno, because I tried the Inferno actually, and I can clearly see that, like, God's presence is less there, so maybe we can reconcile this way. So I think that this doesn't contradict with his, like, omnipotence or his omnipresence. It just means that she's more concentrated in the certain Right.

But then the question then is, like, why does heaven and hell exist? God can make everything perfect, right? So why not just make everything heaven? Why does heaven and hell exist? Yes?

Because in theology, that would be the lack of God or the lack of God's presence. So there's free choice and free will, so there should be a heaven and a hell.

Yeah, that's the correct answer. Yes, there has to be If you are to allow for free will, you must allow for heaven and hell to exist. Can you explain why?

Because if everything is heaven then there is no free choice. If there is choice then there will be consequence and there will be the wrong choice, I guess. And what happens with the wrong choice is probably hell or the lack of God's presence.

Anyone else? Yes.

Yeah, maybe I think because we are just, you know, you're flesh, you're body. So if we got body then we must be locked, right? Because we can't just get out of it. But if there's possibility that people can get out of your body. Try to imagine, okay, I used to have such kind of nightmare when I was, you know, sleeping in my bed and I thought I was just out of there, out of my body. That really make me feel so crazy, but what if there's really possibility that people really can get out of your body?

All right. So this is what's it called, the paradox in the Divine Comedy. Why does heaven exist? Why does hell exist? Okay? And it has to do with free will. So keep this in the back of your mind, okay? These are the paradoxes being created, and only by deep reflection, deep observation, by using your intuition and your imagination, you come to an answer, okay? So this is an essential paradox, okay? We've established that. Let's keep on going. Carol, do you continue reading, please?

Should I do six or I was one of them the heaven that receives more of his light. And I saw things that he who from that height descends forgets or cannot speak. When nearing its desired end, our intellect sinks into an abyss so deep that memory fails to follow it.

Okay, so what Dante is saying here is that he has reached the heavens which receive more of his light. And he saw things that "he who from that height descends forgets or cannot" How is Dante able to reach such heights? There's a paradox here.

Is it kind of the inversion, because he's already gone through hell, so he can then perceive how great heaven is.

Yeah, that is a possibility. It is because he suffered pain. Because he's seen the worst that he's able to see heaven. Yes, that's a possibility. Good. What are some other possibilities? Yes?

Maybe he has never lost his love for Beatrice, because Beatrice is kind of like, like God sent an angel, so that reflects like his love for God and like divine being.

That is true. He's never lost his love for Beatrice, and that's why he is in paradise. So what does love enable you to do that allows you to I think that God is like the symbol of love.

So by like loving Beatrice, there's like still this Okay.

Let's be careful with terminology. God cannot be a symbol. God exists, right? Okay. Keep on going.

So, I mean, I'm not like an expert on this, but I'm just thinking that, like, because he's always loving, so he's always, like, that's kind of like a virtue, and it's not really Okay.

So I want you guys to think about this, okay? He's flying, but what propelled him into flight is the imagination, right? Because from that height, once you reach a certain height, you either descend, or you forget, or you cannot speak. Meaning, like, your imagination has to be so far that you might not be able to go any further, so you just descend, but you might also forget what you've imagined. But the most likely possibility is you can't even describe in words what you've imagined, okay? So what's really important to understand is that the Divine Comedy is happening both at a metaphorical as well as a literal level.

"Near this end, our intellect sinks into an abyss so deep that memory fails to follow it." So Dante is imagining the heavens, and he's reached his desired end, okay? He wants to be with God, but then his intellect, the logic, sinks into an abyss. So think of a stone that falls into a hole, okay? It's falling really fast, and the memory is a bird trying to catch this stone before it falls. Okay? So that's what he's saying. He's saying the imagination and the memory are two different things.

The next three lines. Nevertheless, as much as I, within my mind, could treasure of the holy kingdom, shall now become the matter of my song.

Keep on going.

Oh, good Apollo, for this final task, make me the vessel of your excellence. What you, to merit your love floral, Keep on going.

Until this point, one of Parnassus' peaks sufficed for me, but now I face the test. The aidon that is left, I need both Okay.

All right. So let me It's actually context, okay? There are at least three Dantes in the Divine Comedy. Okay? There are at least three Dantes in the Divine Comedy. The first is the pilgrim, who is on this journey, okay? That's the first Dante. The second Dante is the historical Dante, the person who actually lived. And the historical Dante will appear because he'll bring in some other historical figures into the Divine Comedy. These are people he knows, okay? That's the second Dante. There's a third Dante. And who's the third Dante?

Can you explain what that means?

Impressive.

Like who he imagined himself to be, like in heaven or in other places, like Who's the third Dante?

Well, I would think that he is the essential poet. Like he is the essence of the poet. He's the archetype.

This is not a hard, guys. This is the third Dante. Who is the third Dante? The first is the character, the protagonist. The second is the historical Dante, the real Dante. And who's the third Dante?

I'm just, like, randomly guessing one, the Dante in the future.

This is not a hard question. Yes.

The Dante that he imagines himself No, guys.

Guys, there's a third Dante. Yes.

The reader.

The reader? No, we're the reader. So who's the third Dante?

Maybe the Holy Father, Holy Spirit.

No, no, no, no. No, guys. This is not There's a third Dante. Who is the third The writer?

The author?

The writer. The guy who wrote this thing, okay? These are not the same people. There is the protagonist. There is the historical Dante. And there's the writer, the poet. Let me ask you this question. If it is true that Dante is the protagonist, then who's the antagonist?

We're in heaven. Satan doesn't exist in heaven.

Maybe his old self or something like Yes, exactly.

He explained this.

When some people enter heaven, he's a new-made man. So that means he has to die to his old self to enter into this new form of pure existence.

Yeah. So the idea here is that the conflict is between himself, okay? There is Dante the pilgrim, who is trying to seek God. But there's Dante the pilgrim who has ego and fear and doubts, okay? And so this could be the struggle in the heavens. Dante will have to struggle with himself in order to let go of his ego and his fears to truly understand the meaning of God, okay? And Beatrice will be his guide in this, okay? So we've established our three Dantes. And it's a really important question to understand: Dante the poet, Dante the real person, and Dante the pilgrim.

Is this Christian?

Yeah, guys, this is a Christian text meant for Christians. This is a Catholic world, the Catholic Church is in charge, and he's calling upon Apollo. Why is he doing this?

So this just reminds me of the text of Gregory of Tours, who is actually a monk. Like, he's literally part of the church, and before he wrote about King Alfred, he wrote in the preface, "Oh, Apollo, help me to write King Lear very well." So first off, maybe this is, like, generally accepted within the current social atmosphere, to invoke Apollo as an author to ask him to make your writing really Okay, all right.

So you just made a statement. Maybe this is just accepted at this time. Well, we know for a fact it's not accepted at this time. Carol, could you go to Google, please?

And what we're going to do is we're going to Google medieval Christian art, okay? We're going to Google medieval Christian, we're just going to show images, okay? When you see the images, it's pretty consistent, okay? Can you go to images? Yes. Okay, guys, can you see the images? There are lots and lots of images. This is all Christian art. What do you not see?

You don't see Jesus.

You don't see the common man.

Exactly, okay? You don't see any man. These are all saints or religious figures in the Bible, okay? That's point one. There is no common man in any of What's number two? What's another sharp difference?

Enter into my breast, within me breathe the very power you made manifest when you drew Marsyas out of his limbs' Okay, stop.

Okay, good. So the thing about the Divine Comedy is that there are a lot of in here, okay? So what Dante's going to do is he's going to reference a lot of mythology, Apollo. So Apollo had a competition with the poet Marsyas, and they basically had a competition about who would be the better poet. And Marsyas lost, and Apollo basically skinned him alive, okay? It's a pretty gruesome story, but there's a lot of mythology being driven into here, okay? Keep on going.

O godly force, if you so lend yourself to me that I might show a shadow of the blessed realm inscribed within my mind.

So again, this is paradoxical, where he is invoking Apollo in order to describe a Christian heaven. I'm going.

Then you would see me underneath the tree you love. There I shall take as crown the leaves of which my theme and you shall make me work.

What's the tree that Apollo loves? Do you guys know?

The laurel tree, yes. Who said that? Okay. Do you know the legend here?

I impress the legend.

Yeah, so basically Apollo had a lover and the lover No, he didn't have a lover.

Yeah, he had someone he loved, right?

Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, right, and then it became a lover for him. So he had someone he loved and that person did not want to be his lover Daphne.

Daphne is her name.

Yeah, and basically that person was running from Apollo because Apollo was chasing her, and that person told Athena, oh, please don't let Apollo be my lover, and Athena turned her into a laurel tree and Apollo can no longer be her lover.

Right, but Apollo loved her so much that he also makes the laurel tree his symbol, right? So if you are a champion, a poet, he gives you the laurel wreaths. Not only is Dante invoking Apollo, asking for his divine power, but he is remembering or reciting the stories that make Apollo famous, okay?

I wonder if he's trying to reinvent heaven and the concept of paradise that is not just a Christian paradise, but it could also coexist with the Greek idea of heaven and gods, maybe.

Right. The problem though is that the Greeks didn't have a concept of heaven, Yeah, there's Mount Olympus, but yeah, not really.

The Greeks didn't have heaven. So what is he trying to do here? So for Dante, trying to think about what creativity is, right? He's trying to think about what knowledge is. And for him, if you are truly to have knowledge, if you're truly to exercise your imagination, what would you need to do? And how would that be different from the teachings of the Catholic Church at this time in history?

Well, he gives me the impression of someone who worships enlightenment regardless of source. So he is seeking the truth, like, regardless of source. It could be Apollo, it could be God, but he'll take whatever will show him the truth.

Yeah. Yeah, that's correct, right? The idea is if you really want to know the truth, you have to be open-minded. But not only do you have to be open-minded, but you have to rigorously draw on from different traditions, okay? These traditions exist for a reason, and you need to combine these traditions in order to reach a truth. And guess what, guys? This becomes the basic premise of the Renaissance, right? Okay? So, Carol, can we do a Google search?

Renaissance art. Okay? So this is Christian art, right, you guys? It's pretty static. It's just depictions of biblical passages, right? But when you look at Renaissance art, you see how vibrant it is. It's drawing from different traditions, okay? So can you show this?

So, livestream right now is not working well. I mean, it's fine. We have the video camera, right?

Okay, it's fine. What I mean, like, yeah, it's just in the Yeah. Okay, we'll continue, okay? All right. So do you see what's happening, okay? We have now this radical leap from Christian medieval art to Renaissance art. You can see the vastness of the difference. It's Dante that's doing this, okay? Yes?

I remember going to Italy and then I remember seeing the medieval art. The babies look really scary because I think the church guy explained that baby is supposed to be Jesus when he was a baby, but when he was a baby he was still this, like, divine figure, so that's why they drew him like a middle-aged man. But in Renaissance art, they start drawing, like, baby faces and real human proportions, like this idea of individuality as you expressed earlier. So they started trying to see humans as they really are rather than what spiritually, like, religiously they should represent.

Yeah, exactly. So the major difference between medieval art and Renaissance art is that with medieval art, you're trying to condition the Christian in a certain mentality, one of fear and humility. To be always afraid, but also to be humble before God. Whereas Renaissance, and the Renaissance becomes the launching pad for modernity because the Renaissance is trying to activate the human imagination, okay? And so the way you do that is you make humans the central character in the story of humanity, okay? And that's what's happening in Dante, where Dante makes himself the central character.

But the fact that it's from Greek as well is kind of the same as how Christianity started with Jesus being born from Virgin Mary, which is a very Greek kind of storyline. So maybe he's trying to show his theology ideas that Jesus, in, you know, like, the Christian God himself, you know, uses a Greek traditional way to make him known that he's a son of God.

Okay, all right. So a couple comments. First of all, let's work with precise terminology. He is not a theologian. He is a poet. This is poetry, not theology, okay? There's a lot of theology, there's a lot of philosophy in this, but it's poetry. This is a major difference, okay? Theology is trying to explain religion. Poetry is to activate the Okay, the religious imagination. That's point one. Point two is everything that you're saying is not raw, but you're seeing it from the year And this was written in the year 1321, okay?

So seldom, Father, are those garlands gathered for triumph of ruler or poet, poet, a sign of fault or shame in human wills that when the name branches can incite someone to long and thirst for them, the light must fill the happy delphic deity.

So he's again talking to Apollo, right? He's calling him Father, not capital F Father, but father, okay? So he is invoking Apollo as a lesser god, which is sacrilege, by the way, in this world, okay? Keep on going.

Great fire can follow a small spark. There may be better voices after me to pray to Ser as God for aid.

Ser as God is Apollo.

That he may answer. The lantern of the world approaches mortals by varied paths.

Lantern of the world is the sun, right? Which is Apollo. And Apollo can reach you through different paths. And he's trying to invoke Apollo, right? He's trying to reach Apollo. Keep on going.

But on that way which links four circles with three crosses it emerges joined to a better constellation and along a better course and it can temper and stamp the world's wax war in its own manner.

Okay, so let's try to unpack what's going on, okay? So he's saying he wants to reach Apollo. He wants to summon and invoke Apollo. And there are many ways you can do that, but the way that links four circles with three crosses is the best way. Okay? So now what we're going to do is we're going to try to figure out what the four crosses with, sorry, four circles and three crosses is. And by the way, everything that I am saying is my own interpretation. Okay? But I think that it's really important to figure out what four circles and three crosses are.

The Holy Trinity maybe? Like the Trinity, God, and the Son and the Father. Like the Trinity.

No, that's not what the Trinity is. Come on. The three crosses. No one here Christian? Yes? I'm Christian. It's when Jesus died. Like the Yes!

Yes! Do you understand? When Jesus died, he died on the cross with two other people, okay? That's what the three crosses are. It's Jesus, right? This is Jesus on Mount Calvary. Right? That's pretty obvious. What are the four circles? This is Maybe the four elements?

Water, fire, earth, wind.

Yes, that is a possibility, but what are the circles? It's four, right? There's four elements, but what are the circles at?

When you think circle, what do you Spheres, right?

Planets, sun. So four suns is what? Call them the four seasons, right? Okay, so this is the let me Okay, so again, it's really important we figure this out, okay?

Exactly, the pagan tradition, okay? So now we have a paradox. What is a pagan tradition doing with a Christian tradition? Christian tradition is clearly the three crosses. The four circles are clearly the pagan There's a paradox here.

So I'm just to preface this, I'm neo-pagan, so some of my idealizations of paganism might be, well, idealized. But what I think is that paganism is more primal and more varied. So we're used to an Anglo-Christian world, we're used to a homogeneous world, we're used to people agreeing with our ideas, and when they don't, we argue with them. But the pagan world is almost more tolerant in a way. Like, there's more gods, there's more opinions, and you're likely to run into someone who won't agree with you.

Okay, so this is confusing because neo-paganism, the modern pagan world, it embraces many different ancient traditions, including Druidism, animism. Throughout most of human history, you're what idea, what thing were you most concerned with? What were you really concerned with as a pagan? Yes?

That you don't upset the gods.

Well, because you can't not upset the gods.

Okay. How did you make your living? What did you do for a living?

Farming, right?

If you upset the gods, they have a drought or a huge rainstorm, and all of your crops are gone.

Exactly, right? Would you be comfortable in this world? Why not? Why would you be comfortable in this world of paganism? Yes?

Well, you constantly live in fear.

You constantly live in fear?

No, like if they If you're doing the right thing, you Right?

You have absolutely Yes?

More essentially, I think it's the ambiguity. You have to be comfortable with not knowing what the gods want to do to you.

Right. So, yes?

And you can't predict the actions of your fellow human beings as well as in a You might have to turn it on.

Turn this on.

You can't predict the actions of your fellow human beings as well as you would in a Christian conservative So the reality is that in the pagan agricultural world, okay, where the focus is on fertility, you have absolutely no agency. Right? You have no individuality.

Life is passive for you, okay? It's not about what you can do, it's really about appeasing the gods. Right? So there's really no individuality. It's really hard for you to be creative or to make your mark on the world. Right? So, yes?

But I have a question here. Like, you just told us earlier that medieval Christian art and even the Catholic Church in Dante's time suppressed creativity and promoted God-fearing humility. So how is that different?

Okay, that's a good question. So we're talking about medieval Christian Europe in the year 1300, right? But this is referring to Jesus at the time of his crucifixion, which is about the year 33, around 33, okay? All right? What it Okay, for the Christians in this room, why did Jesus have to die? Why was his crucifixion, his death, such a historical event? Why?

Because there's no way for man himself to atone for his sins, and man cannot be sinless, stainless, so to pay the price for his actions.

So what was Jesus?

So, Jesus was the faultless lamb who can die for human No, what was Jesus?

Son of God.

So, God himself has to come Of God, who is what?

Who is the Messiah? Who is sinless.

Who is But is he a man or is he not a man?

He's both. So is the father.

Exactly. You understand this, okay? You understand this is important. He is both son of God and he's a man as You understand? Okay? And if you're not a Christian, it's kind of weird, but for like 2,000 years they've argued about this, all right? But if Jesus If you want to understand Christianity, you need to understand Jesus was both a man as well as a God. And if you're a man, you're able to redeem all humanity, now you have Now you're able to mark a new period in human history.

Right. So exactly. And this is what Tony is saying. He's saying that the Catholic Church and Jesus and Christianity, these aren't necessarily the same things, okay? All right? So with this poetry, Dante is trying to create a new understanding of Christianity. And this is again what gives rise to the Renaissance as well as modernity. Okay, but does this make sense to you? Okay? And what he's doing that's really important is he's creating paradoxes, right? Why is paganism a symbol of paganism, the four circles?

So, in summary, the idea is, like, the sun shines on the world and it doesn't just shine on Christians, it shines on That's what Dante believes, okay?

But what he's going to do later on that is even more revolutionary is say, "It's not God's choice whether or not to shine on you. It's your choice whether you want God to shine on you or" Does that make sense to you? All right? But this comes later. All right. So, any more questions before we move on?

Its entry from that point of the upper horizon brought morning there and evening here.

So he's talking about the sun, right?

Almost all of that hemisphere was white while ours was dark. When I stopped Beatrice turn around and left that she might see the sun no eagle has ever stared so steadily at it. And as a second ray will issue from the first and reascend much like a pilgrim who seeks his home so on her action that by my eyes to my imagination my action drew and on the sun I set my sight more than we usually do. More is permitted to our powers there than is permitted here by virtue of that place made for mankind as its true home.

The eyes of Beatrice were all intent on the eternal circles. From the sun I turned aside. I set my eyes on her. And watching her within me I was changed as Glaucus changed tasting the herb that made him a companion of the other sea Okay, so if there's something that's really confusing about the by hominy, it is that different universes are existing in parallel with each other, right?

So there is the universe of the Greeks, right? Where Apollo is the sun. Now he's switching to the Christian universe where God is the sun, okay? So all these universes are existing in parallel with each other, and the reason why is that we are in heaven. We are in paradise. And so this is in the spirit world.

No, because I mean, you're immortal. Well, like, you live forever. Why would you be able to perceive time then? I mean, it wouldn't make sense. Well, it is like spirits never die or they've always been there since the universe existed.

Well, I understand, but you still keep time, right? Why can't you perceive time and space? The answer is no, you can't perceive time and space. There's a really good reason why you cannot. Yes, have you guys thought about this?

Obviously, because you can't interact with time and space. Your soul is immune to the influences of time and space. You don't have a body to be battered Or otherwise.

Yeah, so the key is to understand that without a body, it's impossible for you to understand time and space, okay? And this is what Immanuel Kant tells us. What time and space is: space is sensation. Sensation is made possible by the five senses, okay? Distance is between bodies. If you don't have a body, you wouldn't have a conception of distance, okay? And what time is, time is sequence, which is caused in the back. Caused by sensation, right? I first had this feeling and had that feeling. That's time.

And how are these, like, spirits involved? Are they, like, everywhere at the same time? Or, like, how are these spirits involved in humans? Or, like, because is it through emotions?

I don't understand the question. Can you repeat that?

Yeah, like these spirits, there's multiple, right? So, and in the Greek world, I mean, the Greek world, you would say they did have a body because, you know, there's all these gods that came down to Earth. So they had to, like, inhabit a body in the end.

But in the Greek world, what happened was these spirits took You understand? They didn't come to us as material forms. They took possession of animals, like Zeus, or they took possession of people, But well, then they were able to perceive time and space.

That's right, but only they can take possession of someone's Okay?

Does that make sense? Right? So that's what Dante is doing. He's trying to have Apollo possess him so that he's able to use the powers of Apollo, okay? All right. Let's keep on going.

Passing beyond the human cannot be worded. Let block it serve as simile until grace grants you the experience. Whether I only was the part of me that you created last, you governing the heavens know, it was your light that raised me. When that wheel which you make eternal through the heavens longing for you drew me with the harmony you temper and the fire of the sun then seemed to me to kindle so much of the sky that rain or river never formed so broad a lake.

So do you guys understand the sequence of events, right? So he starts off invoking Apollo and says, "I had this great dream or experience 20 years ago. Please, Apollo, give me the power to describe what I saw with words, because what I saw was beyond common space. It is beyond the imagination of ordinary mortals, okay? Like us, the readers today, okay?" And now what he's doing is he's now describing as a pilgrim his experience 20 years ago with Keep on going.

Opened her lips before I opened mine to ask, and she began, "You make yourself accused with false You cannot see what you would see if you dispelled it. You're not on the Earth as you believe, but lightning flying from its own abode is less swift than you are returning Okay, so they are in the heavens, which is beyond time and space.

But in order for Dante to understand what's going on, the universe has constructed the universe in a way for Dante to process. So it's linear. There is a bit of time and space, okay? And what Beatrice is saying to him, basically, is, "Here, you have to completely rely on your intuition and your imagination, okay? Do not try to use logic. Do not try to take what you learn on Earth and apply here. It will just confuse you, okay?

I don't know if this is going to be talked about later, but is this kind of also an allegory to Christianity? Because certain Christian apologists have argued before that obviously faith is what you need for Christianity. By using logic, that's where we can sort of fall into sin.

He will address this later on, okay? He will talk to Paul, who is the person who says this, right? For Paul, faith is to believe without evidence. Yeah, so we'll talk about this later on. Yes. Good. All right. Any more questions before we go on? Are you guys following along? Because it gets harder and harder, okay? Well I have a quite innocent question.

I just feel curious, like, why there's no need for logic in the heaven, because it seems like in order maybe for communication in the world I think it's necessary to have it anywhere, right? I mean, if people do not use logic or their, like, daily conversation, how could that be? I mean, any place.

Is there a How about I answer this So you're in heaven.

You're in spirit. Your body's not there. You don't need to move your teeth, move your meat crab to talk. You can just tele- teleport around.

Yeah, I know. I mean, it doesn't mean, like, you have to physically make a sound or vibrate, too. Like, let others receive your message, but I mean, because, like, even if you are a spirit, you still have your conscious, right? So how could you guys, like, using that to make your conscious have the agreements even if you don't have to use the logic.

Yeah, that's exactly the point. You don't have to make people agree with you. You can just think about it and everyone will understand what you mean.

Oh, yeah. Because I think Bruce Lee has just said that don't think, feel. So maybe I think Bruce Lee is just, like, kind of a philosopher, right? Just said, just, like, even like that thing said, don't think, feel.

Okay. All right. So let me answer your question, okay? Because this is a question that most high school students are going to have.

If you're in high school, logic does matter because you have to take tests, okay? But that's the point of logic, to take tests and to pass tests and make the teacher give you a good grade, okay? Logic is a system we developed in order to control the way you behave and think in our world, okay? But our world is a subset of the entire universe. And quite honestly, there are many issues with logic, okay? So, for example, mathematics and science really constrain your capacity to perceive the world. And this is something that will become much more clear as you continue to read the Divine Comedy.

While I was freed from my first doubt by these brief words, she smiled to me. I was yet caught in new perplexity. I said, "I was content already. After such great wonder, I rested."

Okay, sorry, I'm sorry, okay, all right. So, "While I was freed from my first doubt by these brief words, she smiled to me. I was yet caught in new perplexity," okay? So what is his first doubt?

Am I really here? Yeah, he is not Anyone else? What is this doubt? It's really hot. Am I really here? He's not sure where he And what he's just telling you and him is that we are in a new universe that is beyond time and space, okay? So if they're going to go visit the moon and Venus and the sun and Jupiter and Saturn, these are not our Jupiter or our Saturn, okay? Okay, these are metaphors. This is another universe, okay? That's his first doubt, okay? But once you have this first doubt, what other questions might you have?

To me?

Can I stay?

Can I stay?

Do I belong here?

To me?

Do I belong in this realm?

Yeah, how does this realm work?

How did I get up there?

Yeah, this first thing, we're in a new universe, it raises all sorts of different questions, okay? And so this is what makes Dante's conception of the universe unique, because heaven is not perfection, it is not the end, it's just another journey. It's just another place for you to ask questions. Okay, does that make sense? All right? So, yeah, okay. Can you keep on reading, Carol? "I said, I was content already after such great wonder. I rested. But again, I wonder how my body rises past these lighter bodies."

Okay, so she's trying to figure out how this universe works, right? Because they're flying throughout the cosmos. And he's like, why am I flying? He's completely confused by what's going on. But again, what's important to understand is that there is no time and space in this universe. Time and space has been constructed for Dante's personal benefit so that he can understand what's going on. All right? Does that make sense? Okay, keep on going.

"At which, after a sigh of pity, she settled her eyes on me with the same look a mother casts upon a raving child, and she began. All things among themselves possess an order, and this order is the form that makes the universe like God. Here do the higher beings see the imprint of the eternal work, which is the end to which the pattern I have mentioned tends. Within that order, every nature has its bent according to different station, nearer or less near to its origin. Therefore, these natures move to different ports across the mighty sea of being, each given the impulse that will bear it on."

Okay, so what she's saying here is that God created the universe in a certain structure, okay? And God permeates the entire universe and touches us all, okay? And there is a logic, a reason, a to the universe. What Dante's going to do is try to figure out what this logic is. What is the organizing principle of the universe? Why has God constructed the world the way he has, okay? You want to go ahead. And even this is it should even happen, okay? So, there's a hierarchy even in heaven.

"The providence that has arrayed all this for or requires with its light that heaven in which the swiftest of the spheres revolves. To there, as toward a destined place, we now are carried by the power of the bow that always aims its shaft at a glad Yet it is true that even as a shape may often not accord with art's intent, since matter may be unresponsive, deaf, so from this course the creature strays at times because he has the power, once impelled, to swerve elsewhere. As lightning from a cloud is seen to fall, so does the first impulse, when man has been diverted by false pleasure, turn him toward earth."

So here she's trying to explain how the universe works, how it moves, okay? Can someone, in simple terms, explain to me what he's saying here? You decipher, interpret what she's saying here.

God assigned you a bunch of weights. If you're light, you go up. If you're heavy, you go down. If you're light and you're still down, then you should be Yeah, good guess, though.

That's not what she's saying at all. What do you think the problem with this would be? Why would Dante take objection to this idea? You said that God assigns weights. Why would Dante be angry at all this Technically, he's a human.

However, right here, he is on the doorstep of heaven. So, how did he get there?

Okay. So, let's first try to unpack this idea. God assigns weights, okay? And there are lots of Christians who do believe this. This is something that John Calvin would argue. Dante would find this really objectionable. He'd be very angry at this idea. Why?

Very judgemental.

Exactly. It's unjust. Do you understand? How can you justify giving someone a heavy weight and someone a light weight? Why would God do that? What's the rationale for that?

And there's also a mention of natures and many forms of natures. So, multiple standards, multiple Exactly, okay?

So, God shines everywhere, okay? And God would never be judgemental. That goes against the nature of God. Okay? So, God is not judgemental. God is all forgiving, all generous. So that can't possibly be the answer, that God has assigned weights. So what's another explanation?

But if he did assign weights and if he isn't judgemental, then how are some people in heaven and some people are in Yeah, exactly.

Right, that's what I'm asking you. Yes?

Or is it we give ourselves the weights?

Exactly. Can you explain that?

Cuz through this conception we have free will, so if we obviously end up with the heavy weights, it's because we've done the greatest sin.

What is God Yes? Yes?

Well, also what some religious people teach is just that we can't forgive ourselves. So we're not able to But we could forgive ourselves, but some people have sinned so greatly that they don't have the power to forgive themselves. So they think they don't have the power.

Good. Okay, all right. So what is God What is God doing? Just tell us explicitly what God is doing. What's God doing?

Action plan What is God's action?

What is God trying to do?

So if the weights are the ones you put on yourselves, then God is trying to tell you to take them off yourself.

Okay. So what did you say? It's like God is trying to draw you to him. Right? He's attracted to you, right? He's locked you on. He's going to draw you to Okay? That's what God is trying to do. But what are you doing?

I imagine God's like She's like watching a movie, right? He's sitting back and watching everybody on their own free will, navigating and exploring their different perspectives, their different views of things, and as they kind of go towards him or away from Is God watching me?

What would God They say God is not watching you? But I say God just keeps watching all of us. Yes, I say this kind of confession, and if you think you're guilty then you have a thought of God is there. For example, if you steal something and you think it's okay, nobody watches it, but your guilt is still there. So, if your guilt is still there it means that God is there. So, maybe this is what I thought. Again, is it more on agency or are we watching God or is he watching us?

Exactly. So the key is this, God is always welcoming you, okay? God is always trying to draw you to him. Because of the law of free will, of free choice, it's entirely your choice what to do. You could welcome God, embrace God, and then move towards the light, which is what Donnie is But you can also turn away from God and do what you want. Okay? And this is how the universe And this is the basic premise you have to work with. Everything you do is entirely because you choose to do it.

So that you're not forced to enter heaven or forced to obey God's commands.

Okay. Okay, yes, that is true. But I'm saying, why does God give you free In the very physics imagination of it, if you imagine God as energy, and energy tends to accumulate, tends to want more of it.

So as you have free will, all these agents having free will gravitate towards that source of energy, that source of energy becomes Does that make sense?

I think it makes sense, but I'm not Yes.

Is it kind of cuz God doesn't have his own free will, so he uses through us?

God doesn't have free will. That doesn't make any sense. He's God,

Like he can't sit I think it's exactly because God is omnipotent.

He can do everything he wants, but he chooses to give the freedom of choice to people to But why?

Just to see how people react.

Like an experiment?

He's experimenting on us. Well, we're like mice in a lab, right? Yes? Yes?

I think he wants humans to reach him, so he would need a way for people to not reach him to make a contrast for making their journey closer and closer to him.

This sounds like a mice experiment, right? You have this maze and you want the mouse to come to you, right? Is that what God is doing?

I mean, because God made man in his own image and he wanted man to have agency just like him.

But why does God want man to have agency? Yes?

Because there's no good if there's no Like if they are willing to do good, [clears throat] there's actually good.

Okay, so again, God wants to create good, so he has to create evil as well. He says all of this is an experiment, and you have to ask yourself, would God actually do any of This is a bit of a radical opinion, but what if God just didn't create us?

Then he's not God.

No, like what if we're independent from This is Okay, but yes.

He doesn't want blind obedience from humanity because if we are all forced to believe in him, then he wouldn't be God Okay.

Yes?

In the passage, Dante writes, "Everything has an order." All right?

That's right.

So, you know, rocks fall downward, the fire burns upwards. So, it seems like those things don't really have free will, but as humans we can stray from the path and like Whatever you like. So as humans we don't automatically have that order.

Okay. No, okay. So, we know there's free will, okay? We know what makes us basically human is our free will. What I'm saying is, why do we have this? Why did God give us this? Yes?

Cuz God is actually within us. So, he wants to experience it.

God is within us, so he wants to free will. But God already has free God is God. God can do whatever he wants. In the material world. In the material world.

So, that means there will be no camouflage that can make someone confused. Then God can make the real judgment based on people's action and their true thoughts.

Okay. All right, so guys, again, this is a problem because you're overthinking this. It's not that hard.

That's what we do. You were a child, okay?

How do you know your parents truly love you? What is that one signal that your parents truly love you unconditionally? What is it?

You can do whatever you want. Free will. You understand?

What How about I just kind of like the judge in the law is called the motivation.

A judge, okay?

It's kind of motivation like maybe No, no, no.

Okay. God is perfection. God is the creator, and God, to show he loves everything in the universe, gives freedom to the universe. Free Does that make sense? Okay? And again, just think about your parents. Just think about how, if you're a parent, how you treat your child. How do you know you truly Your parents truly love you? Because your parents support you unconditionally. You understand? That's what God is. God loves you unconditionally. God would never, ever ask you to anything. God will not ask you to do good.

Well, I don't know, but you know, I'm also a father and I think my son, I can't just give them unconditional love because if I think it's conditional love, it is you don't take responsibility for him. For example, if he's not my son, he can do everything what he wants. I don't care. But if he is my son, I have to tell [laughter] him, all right, you're my son. You have to I DON'T HAVE TO

THIS is Okay, I don't want to turn it into a debate.

We're trying to rewrite comedy. We're trying to understand what Quentin is saying here. Yes?

I kind of hold the same opinion where it's like, yeah, I agree with the idea that if someone loves you, they will support you unconditionally. And if you want to do something, they will support that. But I don't think it's the same thing as free will, because free will is saying if I don't want to go to sleep, my parents just let me stay up all night. And if I don't want to eat my vegetables, my parents let me eat candy. That doesn't seem like them showing that they love you.

Yeah, and you understand there are rules to the universe, okay? For example, we don't have the power to blow up the entire universe. Do you understand? There are limits to what we can do. God does have limits to us. Does that make Okay? Yes?

So maybe I want to pose a question at the very least. It seems like Eve ate the apple from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. And prior to that Adam and Eve didn't have knowledge of this good and evil, perhaps would a bit of this free will without the dichotomy.

But the fact that the tree existed in the garden in the first place already shows that God has given free will from the beginning. So he has, you know, a recommendation. I recommend you not to eat this fruit, but if you want, it's there, you know? So from the very beginning there is free will. It's not like humans seek free will, got the fruit, and then got free will, but it's there.

Yeah, so we'll get to the garden, okay? But there are so many ways you can understand what happened, okay? But what Dante will say is exactly that, which is if God didn't want us to have the opportunity to exercise our free will, he would not have put the tree there in the first place. And he would not have said, "Hey, that tree, don't touch it," okay? I mean, yeah, did you have a comment, yes?

Oh, well, this is a bit of a meta narrative, but what if God is perfection, God is everything good, God loves us, so no matter what God does to us, that's a form of his love. If he gives us free will, that's his love. If he doesn't, that's his love. If he did, then we can only assume that he loves Okay.

All right. So, let me clarify something, okay? Dante is beyond time and space. Do you understand? So, we cannot use our logic, we cannot use our language to explain what's going on. But Dante is trying to use our logic, our language to explain to us what's going on. Okay? So, this is not a literal explanation. Oh, God is this force that loves us. It's a metaphorical explanation that helps us understand our place in the universe. Does that make sense? If you want to really go into literal, then go study quantum mechanics, right?

And then start.

Yeah.

"Oh, you who are within your little bark, eager to listen, following behind my ship that singing crosses to deep seas, turn back to see your shores again. Do not attempt to sail the seas I sail, you may, by losing sight of me, be left" Okay.

So now he's talking directly to us, the reader, right? He's the poet. He's talking to us, the reader. Keep on going.

"The waves I take were never sailed Minerva breathes, Apollo pilots me, and the nine Muses show to me the way."

Okay. So again, he's invoking all possible inspirations to help him through this process, okay? And no one's ever been on this journey before. And quite honestly, no one else will be at whatever going on this journey again. And he kept on going.

"You other few who turned your minds and time unto the bread of angels, which provides men here with life, but hungering for more, you may indeed commit your vessel to the deep salt sea, keeping your course within my wake, ahead of where waves smooth again. Those men of glory, those who crossed to Colchis, where they saw Jason turn into a plowman, were less amazed than you will be amazed."

So again, he's referencing Greek mythology, Jason and the Argonauts, okay? Keep on going.

"The thirst that is innate and first for the godly realm bore us the way as swiftly as the heavens that you" Okay.

So, what he's saying is that our fundamental hunger, our fundamental need, our thirst, is to return to God. And he feels God is close to him, so he is moving really quickly towards him.

"Beatrice gazed upward. I watched her, but in a span perhaps no longer than an arrow takes to strike, to fly, to leave the bow, I reached a place where I could see that something wonderful drew me, and she from whom my need could not be hidden turned to me. Her gladness matched her loveliness. 'Direct your mind to God in gratefulness,' she said. 'He has brought us to the first star.'" Okay.

So again, heaven is divided into a hierarchy, okay? Different planes. The first plane is the moon, okay? So they are on the moon right now.

"It seemed to that we were covered by a brilliant, solid, dense, and stainless cloud, much like a diamond that the sun has struck. Into itself, the everlasting pearl received us, just as water will accept a ray of light and yet remain If I was body, and on Earth we cannot see how things material can share one space, the case when body enters body, then should our longing be still more inflamed to see that essence in which we discern how God and human nature were made one. What we hold here by faith shall there be seen, not demonstrated but directly known, even as the first truth that man I answered with the most devotion I can I thank him who has brought me far from the mortal world."

Okay, so they're on the moon, okay? And Dante has a question, which is why are there dark spots on the moon? Actually, Carol, could we just Google the moon?

Yeah. So, you guys have looked at the moon, right? You like dark spots on the moon and you're like, "What are they doing there?" Right? You guys have seen the moon, right? Does anyone know why there are dark spots on the moon?

Because there's craters from meteoroids.

Yeah, that's the standard explanation, the standard explanation is that there are some craters and these craters have certain material that is not reflective. They absorb the light. Okay? All right? But Dante's asking this question. My first question is, "Why are there dark spots on the moon?" And he said he's going to have then and he's asking like why the dogs watch on the moon. And so for him it's a scientific journey, okay, all right. Keep on going, Carol.

"She smiled somewhat, and then she said, 'If the opinion mortals hold falls into error when the senses' key cannot unlock the truth, you should not be struck by the arrows of the mind. But once you recognize that reason, even when supported by the senses, has short" Okay, so here she's saying, "Okay, reason, logic don't work in the universe."

Okay, there are severe limitations to science, to logic, to All right? And so now we're forced to use our intuition and our imagination.

I'm back on practice.

I think imagination and intuition and reason are all on the same level or transcendental cognitive faculties. So why is imagination or intuition higher than reason?

Okay, that's a good question. Okay, all So let's figure this out. Reason and imagination are not the same thing, okay? Logic, intuition are not the same thing. Before I answer, does anyone want to try? What's the You guys talk about this.

What's the difference between reason and I don't know.

I'm going to try, but I might be very wrong. But I think that logic is more about rational, while imagination can be very Like, yeah, it can, for example, different people will have yeah, I would say logic, it's the people in the past, what their experience and summarize and put into theory, or you can say logic is what people think when they're in a normal state of mind, and when they go crazy or when something happened to their brain and they're thinking something else, they can be more imaginative this way,

I think to an extent, logic and reason, they try to explain the material world, but when we go into the realm of intuition and imagination, we can go beyond the constraints of the material world and just do whatever we want, and it's like the human nature, we want to experience things that are greater than this world that we live in. So, that's why sometimes we are drawn to poetry writing. All right, intuitively, I think, the difference between intuition and logic is that logic is, you know, it's like human beings have a of ways of thinking or, you know, experiencing the universe, but logic is the conscious human effort involving language and other, you know, centralized method to experience the universe, whereas intuition is invoking the whole physical or mental capacity without even being conscious.

Okay. All right. So, this is hard, okay? But I need you to understand the difference between reason and imagination, okay? The subtle difference is this. With reason, what you're really doing is dividing things into categories. Does that make sense? In order for you to reason, you have to categorize something. For example, you're a girl, you're a boy, girl, boy, okay? And then from that, once I have these categories, I can start to reason things out, okay? But the categorization is problematic because by categorizing, what I'm doing is I am reducing.

Is it also like if you use logic, you can come up with many answers to one question. But if you have intuition or imagination, there's one truth. Gut feeling.

Yeah. Yeah, that's what I was going to say. Intuition is probably your best guide. Any more? Yes?

Yeah, maybe I think this, you know, in ancient China, people just did not believe in logic. They just believe in, for example, like ancient or we can call love or something. So, you have to show love to your mother. You have to show love to your master. You can't keep asking the question why I show love or what it can give me in return. But reason is different. You have to get something in return. Like, you know, why I love you? Because I need you, right? Why I need you?

So, categorization is important because categorization allows you to better manipulate the material world. Okay, does that make sense, guys? Being able to categorize means you're also able to break things down to their basic elements and then manipulate them to create technology. Okay, does that make sense? But there's a limitation to this. And then the imagination is what carries you through to the deep secrets of the universe. Okay, and that's what Vision is saying here. Okay, you are looking at the moon from a logical, rational, scientific perspective, and that will not let you see the truth.

What's his explanation for It's a very simple explanation. Why are the dark spots dark spots on the dense and rare. What does he mean by this?

Different density.

Can you explain, please? If you're just trying to figure this out logically, what's the most logical explanation for why there are dark spots on the moon?

They're different materials. Or craters from asteroids.

You know, that's not the most logical What is the most logical explanation?

Dirt has different colors. Guys, why are there dark spots on the moon? Why is it that some parts reflect and some parts don't reflect. Why?

I'll use the analogy.

It would be cuz it creates depth and so the farther away, the darker. Same as a cave would be. Right. Okay. So, what we assume is that there's certain parts of one that are Does that make sense? Just from a large perspective, the parts of one that are hollow, and that's where all the light just passes through, and there's some parts of one that is pretty dense and so the light reflects back. I'm just saying from a large perspective when you use categorization and analysis, you get to this If something is hollow, it does not reflect light.

"And she, you certainly will see that your belief is deeply sunk in error if you listen carefully as I rebut it."

What is really interesting about the light company is they're in heaven and they're having a scientific debate, okay? They're having an argument about the nature of science. Keep going my way.

"The eighth sphere offers many lights to you and you can tell that they in quality and size are stars with different visages. If rarity and density alone caused this, then all the stars would share one power distributed in lesser, greater, or equal But different powers must be fruits of different formal principles. Were you correct, one only would be left, the rest destroyed. And more," Please stop.

Okay, right. So, what she's saying here is, okay, we are looking at the heavens. The different stars have different lighting, okay? And she's saying if we can just reduce everything to logic, then this logic controls the universe. And therefore, the entire stars are lit by this logic. Okay?

"And more, were rarity the cause of the dim spots to question, then in part this planet would lack matter through and Or else as in a body, lean and fat can alternate, so would this planet alternate the pages in its volume."

Okay, so what she's saying is this, okay? If it is true that density is what determines then what you're saying is there are parts of the moon that are hollow.

"And more Oops, I hear. And more, were rarity the cause of the dim spots I'm counting. I will just" Read it.

"And more, were rarity the cause of the dim spots to question, then in part this planet would lack matter through and through. Or else as in a body lean and fat can alternate, so with this planet alternate the pages in its volume. To validate the first case in the sun's eclipse, the light would have to show through just as when it crosses matter that is slender. This is not so, therefore we must consider the latter case. If I annulled that too, then your opinion surely is confuted."

Okay, so she's saying it's not possible for the moon to be hollow at any point. Why? It's not possible for the moon to be hollow at any point. Why?

So the structure of the moon is not So anyone?

There's an eclipse in The eclipse, right?

You guys have heard of the eclipse. So it's not possible for the moon to be hollow at any point, otherwise you wouldn't have an eclipse, okay?

Keep going.

"If rarity does not run through and through the moon, then there must be a limit where thickness does not allow the light to pass. From there, the rays of sun would be thrown back just as from glass that hides lead at its back, a ray of colored light returns reflected. Now you will say that where a ray has been reflected from a section farther back, that ray will show itself to be more dim."

Okay, so wait, that's the logical argument, right? Well, maybe the moon is not completely hollow, but there are parts that are so deep the light just is trapped, okay?

"Yeah, an experiment where you're to try it could free you from your cavil, and the source of your art's course springs from experiment." What is she saying here? She's saying, if you don't believe me, and I am a representative of God, if you don't believe me, what should you do?

Do an experiment.

Do it for yourself, man. Do you understand? You don't have to believe me. I am not forcing you to believe anything. You have the power to know the truth for yourself. Okay? Do an experiment. You know what I'm saying?

"Taking three mirrors, place a pair of them at equal distance from you. Set the third midway between those two, but farther back. Then, turning towards them, at your back, have placed a light that kindles those three mirrors and returns to you reflected by them all. Although the image in the farthest glass will be of lesser size, there you will see that it must match the brightness of the rest."

Okay, so do you guys understand the experiment? Okay? What I'm doing is I am putting mirrors in front of me, okay? Maybe 10,000 from me, and I'm putting it like a mirror 10,000 km away. And I'm shining a light at both, okay? Would the between these two Yes or no? No, it's the same brightness, okay? And that 10,000 km mirror might be like you can't actually see it, but if you actually go there, it would just be as bright. Okay? And this is an experiment you can actually do at home.

"Now, just as the soft matter of the snow beneath the blows of the warm rays is stripped of both its former color and its cold, so is your mind left bare of error. I would offer you a new form, light so living that it trembles in your" Why is Beatrice wasting everyone's time?

Why is she doing this? Why does she tell Dante, Dante, you're a And here's the truth. Why is she engaging in this dialogue, this Socratic dialogue? What's the point of this?

So, I'm thinking that Dante hasn't fully convinced himself that he is in heaven yet, so his imagination is not solidified there. So, if he un-convinces himself that he's in heaven, then he would just fall away and he would wake up and he would be back on Earth. So, Beatrice is trying to prevent that by convincing him and by solidifying his imagination in heaven.

Do you think this conversation actually took place? Okay, so what's conversation

I think this is Dante the poet actually structuring it in such a way to demonstrate the difference between what we mentioned earlier, knowledge and Okay, actually yes.

I think it's just for the reader, so the reader can reason it out through Dante's experience in heaven. So, as a reader we use logic to understand Dante.

Okay, but I'm saying, why go through this very long process? Why don't you just tell us what's going on?

Well, I think it's just kind of, you can call it an emotional thing, or, you know, boy, they don't just always think logically. They sometimes think just intuitively. That means we can call original thinking. It's like Elon Musk said, original thinking is not the one but the zero. So, Let me ask you this question.

It's a really weird question, okay? And we'll end the first session with this Okay? The question is this. Dante, if he wrote this in 1321, could he possibly imagine that in the year 2026 we would be in Beijing on this day, a multicultural, multilingual global group, and that we would be discussing his Divine Comedy trying to figure out his intention? Could he imagine this in the year 1321?

He wrote this and it's only in the year 1321. He didn't even know where China was. He never experienced the world. Could he have imagined that in the year 2026 we would be together trying to figure out his intention? Could he have imagined that?

Yeah. Yes. I think it's a yes.

I think yes because just like Shakespeare, he said that maybe the things that we do can be forgotten but words will be remembered forever. So, every writer, while their own work can become a masterpiece, including thinking, I suppose. Yeah.

Yes.

I guess if what he writes is close to the truth and close to what is true, it will stand the test of time, right? And so it's still standing 3,000 50 years from now, 1,000 years from now, 2,000 years from now.

Yeah. Okay. Anyone else? Could he have known that one day we'd be reading this and discussing this in Beijing in 2026?

I don't know. Maybe it has Sorry. I don't know. Maybe when he was on this journey he might have assumed that. That's why after 20 years he was very adamant that I would want to be documenting this conversation and leaving this work in something vernacular so that more people could Do you think he actually had this conversation happen?

Do you think any of this is actually true?

Yes, I suppose.

I think to analyze this you need to strip the situation of its trappings. So, you said we're here in Beijing and we're here, this group of people, specifically talking about it. Of course, he could not have seen these trappings. These are material trappings. If we delve down into the architect of what we're doing, which is discussing his work, which is deriving knowledge, deriving nourishment from it, then this architect is a constant across all ages that he could absolutely have foreseen that this was going to happen.

Okay. That's right. So, 500 years from now, is it possible that another group of people will be watching this video and analyzing what we're discussing? What would make it possible? Why would they be doing this?

Well, maybe because Dante knew that Facebook would change the course of history or we would think in this room that they He didn't even know that.

Well, not for sure, sir.

Oh, he actually did know that. Yes, he did. Okay. He did know that when he wrote What happened to him after he finished Divine Comedy? Do you guys know? Died. He died. Right after he finished Divine Comedy, he died.

Yeah. He died.

Well, I think these topics are eternal and that's what makes us human. So, even after maybe 5,000 years somebody will still learn from these topics and try to learn from people that taught these topics Okay.

Yes?

Yeah, I was going to expand upon that and just say that people are going to forever have curiosity and seek questions about God and they will never be answered until we die and die out.

Yeah, okay. So, I would just say that if you just look into your heart, you know what is eternal, what is true, okay? And you know that what is eternal and what is true will extend into the future as well as extend back in the past, okay? And it's something that you can't actually It's hard to explain. It's something that is just done through faith and intuition, okay? All right. So, we'll end the morning session on this note and then we'll come back at All right?

Okay. Welcome back to the live stream. So for those of you watching online, please note that every day we start class promptly at 10:00. Then we'll break at 12:00 for lunch, and then we'll come back at 1:00. We continue till 3:00, okay? So, the live stream is from 10:00 a.m. until 3:00 p.m. But please note there's an hour break in between [clears throat] just so that we can rest and get some food to eat. Okay. So, again, for the first day we're establishing themes and ideas that structure the Divine Comedy.

Thank you. "Now, just as the soft matter of the snow beneath the blows of the warm rays is stripped of both its former color and its cold, so is your mind left bare of error. I would offer now to you a new form, light so living that it trembles in your" Okay, so the idea here is if you truly want to understand something, you need to engage in debate.

Because this is the year 1321 and the idea is just obey the Catholic Church, just obey your priest and you'll understand. And what Beatrice is finally saying is no, you have to engage in open debate, Socratic debate, if you truly want to understand. So as a teacher, you have to allow your students to make errors, okay? All right, keep on going.

"Within the heaven of the godly peace revolves a body in whose power lies the being of all things that it enveloped."

Okay, all right. So this is really interesting and I want to think about this. The metaphor that's being used is body, all right? The universe is a body, okay? So, as an exercise, I want to think about what other metaphors we could use to describe the universe, right? The metaphor that's being used here is body.

But I want to explore other What are some other possibilities for how to describe the universe?

A big ball.

A big ball. Okay, a big ball. All right, that's interesting. What else? Yes?

God itself, okay, that's a possibility. What else?

In Chinese mythology, they describe it as a turtle that's standing on top of an elephant that's standing on top of something else.

I don't know how to describe that, okay? On top of elephant. So, is it fair to say that there are multiple dimensions and they're all interlocking. Okay, so maybe interlocking dimensions. Okay. This is new to me. You guys are far more creative than I am. Yes, what else?

Press on the mic.

Energy and vibration.

Okay, energy, sure. What else?

The soul.

The soul.

The soul.

The soul.

Okay, the soul. Okay, what else? A cave.

A cave, okay, that's interesting. Okay. Again, you guys are far more creative than I am. I would never come up with these on my own. Anyone else? Okay, how about garden?

So, there's an I and then, like, the word Jeremy Bearimy because the word Jeremy and the J and the Y connect. So, the idea is that the universe is a loop that goes in a Jeremy Bearimy, but then there's an I and if you accidentally end up on that I, you're stuck forever.

This is way too complicated for me. Okay, all right. Okay, this is beyond my intention, okay? All right. The point I'm trying to make is that depending on metaphor, you will perceive the universe in a different way, okay? So, if you just say the universe is energy, it's basically complete chaos, right? Chaos and randomness.

I mean like a crystal ball, like a little simulacrum, and inside is everything, and you can shake it up and it'll change a little.

So, it's still a simulation?

No, not a simulation. It's a ball which contains everything, which is more like a crucible, a reactor.

Yeah, I'm so confused.

A reactor. Okay. So, a garden is something like God as the gardener, right? Does that make sense? We're all just a flower in the garden. God's always taking care of us, right? Nurturing us, cultivating us. A factory is like a where there are certain laws to the universe, and we're governed by these laws, okay? So, the ball The I think a body is interesting because it is distinct from all other of these metaphors. What does a body signify? All right, you have a body, you have a brain, you have arms.

It would mean that we are really part of the universe, and that we can also reflect upon ourself compared to the universe, like what it Yes, thank you.

Yes.

Directly interact with it.

Yes, thank you. Yes.

Just that the body is a metaphor for the universe as in, as a human, the body is all that there is. Everything is contained within.

Okay, yes.

In a body there are organs and they all have a purpose and they all work together. So everything is connected. So there's two things. One is everything is connected. Two is everything has a role.

Good, yes.

A body can receive ideas and then enact them.

The brain, right?

So basically what and so what's a Ideas or the mind.

Okay. Anyone else? Yes. Maybe at the Maybe the body of Christ or something, each has a role, or the head will be leadership and then the other parts, hands or feet, are the actions.

A body can die.

Yeah, a body can die. Yeah, okay. All right. Yes?

Maybe the cells cuz body has cells, Yeah, many more.

So interconnectedness. Yes, okay.

Stars are like cells.

I guess it's interesting that if humans are the image of God and then he's taking this metaphor as the universe, then he's creating a metaphor as the image of humans as well.

Right. Yes. Right. So the universe is a human as well. Yes. Anyone else? Okay. So some key ideas that we want to remember that we can construe from using body as a metaphor for the universe is first of all interconnectedness, right? Everything is interconnected together.

"The sphere that The sphere that follows, where so much is shown to varied essences bestow that being to stars distinct and yet contained in it. The other spheres in ways diverse direct the diverse powers they possess so that these forces can bear fruit, attain their aims. So, these organs of the universe proceed, as you now see, from stage to stage, receiving from above and acting" Okay, so all these different spheres that we see in the heavens, they're like organs in a body, right?

And what's really important to understand is that each organ has its own distinct role and if you lose an organ, that's a problem, okay? So, there's an intentionality, each sphere has a certain purpose, and it's all to a design, okay? All right, keep on going.

Now, do you attend to how I pass by way of reason to the truth you want that, then you may learn how to cross the ford alone."

To cross the ford alone means to learn so that you can be fully independent, right? You are in this class in order to be able to read the Divine Comedy by yourself one day. All right, keep on going.

"The force and motion of the holy spheres must be inspired by the blessed movers, just as the smith imparts the hammers And so, from the deep mind that makes it wheel, the sphere that many lights adorn receives that stamp of which it then becomes the seal."

So, God is the brain, and all the spheres are different organs, okay? Keep on going.

"And as the soul within your dust is shared by different organs, each most suited to a different potency, so does that mind unfold and multiply its bounty through the varied heavens. Though that intellect itself revolves upon a unity."

"With the dear body that it quickens, and with which, as life in you, it too is bound, each different powers forms a different compound. Because of the glad nature of its source, the power mingled with the sphere shines forth as gladness through the living pupil shine. From this, and not from matter rare or dense, derive the differences from light to light. This is the forming principle, producing, conforming with its worth, the dark, the bright."

Okay, all right. So, do you guys understand the point here? I know that in school you study evolution, you study physics, and you believe that the universe is emergent, meaning there are some basic principles, and then from this will emerge other things, okay? And what Dante is saying is that's just a wrong way to understand the universe. There is intentionality. There is interconnectedness. And the reason why the moon shines from other spheres is that God manifests differently in different places. Okay? And it's all to a certain design and intention. And Peter says, "You must understand this idea if we are to move on," okay? So, before we move on, are there any

How could why could our understanding of the world as having evolved from basic principles not coin Is there any answer to this?

Does anyone respond to this idea? You're asking why is this in contradiction, right? Okay, well, I mean there's a debate between evolution and intelligent design, right? Where the people who believe in said, "It is not because of God. It's not because of intention. It's because of survival of the fittest. Because of Darwinism," right? And so, what is the Can you try to hide the use the handheld You have to turn it on.

Yeah, so why could not God not have designed Darwinism? God designed Darwinism and allowed Darwinism to take its course because that's what God Okay, so this is a different conception of God, okay?

So, you can say that God is an architect who designed the rules of the and no longer cares. Does that make sense? Because he's already designed the game and we just play the game and he doesn't really care what happens. What Dante is saying is, "No, God is still with us." And God shows his approval by shining his light in us. Does that make sense?

It's the difference between a game developer and a game master who plays his own game.

It's a rough metaphor, yes, but yeah, the idea is that in evolution, what they're saying is the universe is independent of God. Does that make sense?

Okay, God doesn't interfere in the universe. What Beatrice is saying to Dante is, "No, God is always present. We know because the spheres shine differently." All right. Any more questions before we move on? It's really important you guys make sure you understand. Otherwise, you'll get more and more confused as we go along.

So you mean the God is like, you know, the sun, or we are just like a mirror, so the God just shines upon all of us and we can reflect the God back?

Right, so the metaphor that Beatrice uses is the body, right? So, God is the Okay? So, we're always interfacing with God. All right? Okay. All right, let's continue to Canto 3, please.

"That sun which first had warmed my breast with love had now revealed to me, confuting, proving, the gentle faith of truth its loveliness. And I" Sorry, what is the sun?

Apollo, but what else? God, and what else?

Okay, God, Apollo, and what else? Who's he talking to? Right? So, how can we reconcile this? This is a paradox. Who's he talking to? God or Apollo or Beatrice? This is a paradox. So, how can we reconcile this?

So, I'm going to borrow from William Blake here. So, William Blake has his gods and he also has the gods' emanations. You can consider emanations as representatives of the god. So, Beatrice here is on behalf of Apollo and on behalf of God in a more concrete form in order to show Dante.

Exactly. Okay. Does that make sense to you guys? Okay. Ultimately, the secret is that God is love, okay? And love can take different manifestations. We can use different ways to describe this love. It can manifest itself as Apollo, it can manifest itself as Beatrice, but it's really the same force, okay? All right. Okay, let's go back here and go on.

"And I, in order to declare myself corrected and convinced, lifted my head as high as my confession required. But a new vision showed itself to me. The grip in which it held me was so fast that I did not remember to confess. Just as returning through transparent, clean glass, or through waters calm and crystalline, so shallow that they scarcely can reflect the mirrored image of our faces meets our pupils with no greater force than that a pearl has when displayed on a white forehead. So faint the many faces I saw keen to speak, thus my mistake was contrary to that which led the man to love the As soon as I had noticed them, thinking that what I saw were merely mirroring, I turned around to see who they might be, and I saw nothing."

Because why is this happening, right? Why is everyone not with God? Why are people separated from God, okay? And Beatrice is trying to explain to him. Keep on "Okay, thus speak and listen.

Trust what they will say. The truthful light in which they find their peace will not allow their steps to turn Then I turned to the shade that seemed most anxious to speak, and I began as would a man bewildered by desire to 'Oh spirit born to goodness, you who feel beneath the rays of the eternal life that sweetness which cannot be known unless it is experienced. It would be gracious of you to let me know your name and fate.' At this, unhesitant, with smiling eyes, our charity will never lock its gates against just will."

Wait, so this is really interesting, okay? So, there's a hierarchy to the heavens, and at the very bottom are those who are inconstant, meaning those who have failed to fulfill their vows.

"And I to her, 'Within your wonderful semblance there's something divine that glows, transforming the appearance you once Therefore, my recognizing you as low, but what you now have told me is of help. I can identify you much more'" Okay, so Piccarda is someone that Dante, the historical figure, knew in real life, okay?

So, throughout the Divine Comedy, there are mythical figures, but there are also people who were part of Dante's life. Now, some background about Dante is that he was essentially an aristocrat in Florence who participated in politics. There were many struggles for power in Florence.

This was true throughout Italy, okay? And this power struggle is something that we'll discuss as we move along, okay? But just remember there's a power struggle for Piccarda, someone that Dante knew in real life. You want to go ahead?

"But tell me, though you're happy here, do you desire a higher place in order to see more and to be still more close to Together with her fellow shade, she smiled at first, then she replied to me with such gladness, like one who burns with love's first flame. 'Brother, the power of love appeases our will so. We only long for what we have. We do not thirst for greater Should we desire a higher sphere than ours, then our desires would be discordant with the will of him who has assigned us here.'" "But you'll see no such discord in these spheres.

Okay, so Dante asked her a question. The question is clearly there's this hierarchy in heaven and you are in the outer sphere, right? The core is God. So, do you desire as a person to move closer to God? Basically, graduate, right? To move from the outer sphere to the inner What is her response?

Why not?

She said we are content here.

Yeah, but why?

She is content because she has to be absolutely obedient to God and God says that she has to be content here. So, she has to be content. If she is not content, then she will not even be worthy of this first sphere.

Okay, yeah. Does that make sense, guys? Okay, that's exactly what she says. But what's a paradox here? What's a paradox here?

Her free will couldn't get her Right, but she doesn't want to go higher.

That's the thing though, right?

Yeah, so then God's making the decision for her, though. That's right, and she accepts that decision. But that's a paradox. Why?

It would place God as a judge and we said that he wasn't putting persons into places.

Right. No, but that's my interpretation. I'm saying within the structure, there's a paradox. What's the paradox? There's a logical contradiction here. She says God has willed me to be here and it is my role, my duty to obey his will. Therefore, I'm happy where I am. But what's the problem with this logic? Yes?

So, I'm thinking, say this is the first sphere and there's the second sphere and eventually someone will have to advance from the first sphere to the second sphere, right? And the second sphere is supposed to be better than the first sphere, so you'll be happier in the second sphere than you were in the first sphere. However, according to this logic, one can never advance, one can never change because if you want to advance to the second sphere, then you are not even worthy of the first sphere. If you don't want to advance to the second sphere and God forced you to advance to the second sphere anyways, then you will be less happy in the second sphere than you were in the first sphere, which is not fitting with the second sphere.

Yeah, it makes absolutely no sense. Do you understand the logic here? If it was just a case where you just obey God's will and then everyone's in heaven, there'd be no hierarchy in heaven. Why is there a hierarchy? Does that make sense? Okay? So, why is she stuck where she is?

Cuz she's contented.

Yeah, cuz she's happy where she is. Right? She wants to be there. That's a problem. Okay? All right. All right, do you guys understand this? All right. Okay, let's keep on reading, Carol.

"Then it was clear to me how every place in heaven is in paradise, though grace does not rain equally from the high good. But just as when our hunger has been sated with one food, we still long to taste the other. While thankful for the first, we crave the latter. So was I in my words and in my gestures asking to learn from her what was the web of which her shuttle had not reached the end. 'A perfect life,' she said, 'and her high merit in heaven up above, a woman whose rule governs those who in your world would wear nun's dress and veil, so that until their death, they wake and sleep with that spouse who accepts all vows that love conforms unto his pleasure.'" "Still young, I left the world to follow her, and in her order's habit, I enclosed myself and promised my life to her rule.

Let me explain what's going on, okay? So Dante is asking her, why are you And she says, "Well, what happened was that my brother is this very powerful duke, and I fell in love with God, and I wanted to serve God, so I followed a woman into the nunnery, okay? I became a nun, right? I made my vows to God. My brother, the duke, needed me as a pawn for his power politics, right? He wanted to marry me off to someone else to form an alliance. So, he sent his soldiers to force me back to him and then he married me off.

They didn't Nothing, right?

They didn't have ambition. They didn't try to exercise their free will.

Wait, wait, wait. How could they exercise their free will?

By refusing.

Yeah, but there are soldiers with swords dragging her away. What could she have done?

She could have tried to escape or killed herself.

Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait.

She couldn't offer herself because in Catholicism that's a sin.

Exactly. Thank you. Yes. Okay. This is a really important constraint, okay? So, in the Catholic religion at this time, the worst sin in the world is suicide. You understand? If you kill someone, that's not as bad as if you kill yourself. So, suicide is the worst And why they made this a sin is it was very common for women who are raped to kill themselves. Why?

No [clears throat] one wants to marry Right.

But they were Christians. You understand? They were Christians. So, they thought, "If I kill myself, I can just be going with Jesus."

Oh, right.

And that's why the church has to say, "No, you can't kill yourself anymore." Okay? In fact, Augustine wrote an entire essay on this saying, "The worst sin is suicide. Much worse than rape because look, at the end of the day, they're just raping your body. They can't touch your soul, right? What matters is your soul. Your body doesn't Your body belongs to this earth, which is nothing, but your soul belongs to God, which is everything, okay? So, don't worry if you get raped. Don't worry if you get married.

Then maybe God thinks that the body or the soul is just what I give to you, but if you just deny it, it means that you deny me. So, maybe you need to be Let's elaborate on your idea here.

I think You can't kill yourself, right?

So, what do you do?

So, you should run away.

But they'll just catch you.

Cuz that's So, you fight back like a Disney princess.

You fight You fight back?

Yes? [clears throat] Well, actually I was going to say, what about if she used the free will and she does fight back and dies honorably and then it's not really suicide.

It's still suicide.

But is Dante saying that in this case suicide is okay? Is he going Sure.

Dante would never say suicide is Yeah.

Well, again, what's going on here?

Is he trying to kind of criticize the Christian churches?

No. Okay. No, he did he Yeah?

Could it be bringing randomness and luck into this at all? She had bad luck.

Does Dante believe in randomness and luck? Okay. Yes. This lowest sphere is for people who have broken their promises. When you enter a nunnery, you make a vow to be chaste, to be a virgin forever. And no matter how you did it, no matter who forced you to do this, you still broke that promise in the eyes of God. And so God will assign you where you need to go.

I understand this, but this morning we just said that God was all forgiving, all loving, and not judgmental. This is clearly judgmental. Clearly she did nothing wrong. Why is she here?

What's going on here, guys?

And forgive herself, so she confined herself to that sphere.

Yeah. Well, that is true. She did say that, "I belong here and I'm happy here." Right? But the question is, how did she end up here? That's the question, right?

So, I'm going to write down a phrase, okay? And you guys have all heard this phrase before, but you tell me what it is. "Where there is a will" There is a way.

There is a way. What does it mean?

Like how Rapunzel was stuck in the tower, she escaped. So, if she had a will to escape, she could have escaped. And even if she died, she would have died honorably in trying to exercise her free will.

Okay, anyone else? I don't understand how this works. Where there is a will, there is a way. What does this mean? Okay, yeah, you really want to escape and you escape, but how does that work?

Well, you manifest a way or you imagine a way in your mind out of it and then in some way the universe will give you a way to get there.

Exactly, okay. Could you repeat that? This is exactly it, okay? Okay, make sure everyone understands this idea. Say it again.

Well, if you can imagine the world that you want, then the universe will be able to showcase a way for you and then you will be able to walk it.

Does that make sense to you guys? Okay, let me explain the process. First of all is the will. You really, really want it. Okay? When that happens, you don't know how, an idea will come into your mind. You will imagine a way. And then what happens is that this manifestation, this imagination, the universe will respond and shape reality in a way that allows you to your will. Does that make sense, guys? Okay? So, the problem is that she did not want it enough. Do you understand? It is not she vocal will, it's just she was not faithful enough.

She's here. Oh yeah, sure she's here, but what It happened to her anyways.

No, but what's the problem right now? She doesn't want to go anywhere else, do you understand? That's the problem.

It's not that she's here, it's that she doesn't want to go beyond this point. She's like, "I'm perfectly happy here, man. I went to heaven, I'm awesome, you know? Like I went to Yale, I'm the worst student at Yale, but I'm happy being the worst student at Yale." That's literally what she's All right. Any more questions?

I just want to add that that's what free will is about. Free will is not just being able to do what you want, but being able to will what you want.

It's more about the will than the action.

Yeah, that's exactly correct. Yes. Yes?

Is that like Nietzsche's will to power idea, or is it different?

Okay, let's just say for whatever reason you want to become king, right? And what's the question?

Is this idea about will kind of the same as Nietzsche's idea about will to power?

Yes. Yes, it's very similar. Yes.

It reminds me of a concept we learned in psychology where it's called self-efficacy as brought up by Bandura. The idea is that the number one reason why you're able to accomplish something is you believing in yourself that you can accomplish that Exactly.

Right. The popular phrase is manifestation. You understand? You manifest it. Okay, meaning you imagine it, but you're able to imagine it cuz you will it into being, right? Which is Nietzsche's point, okay? And I mean, it's really important to understand what they're all saying is that there's really no good and evil in the universe. There's just will, okay? And so, it's entirely your choice how to live it. And I know this sounds a bit weird, but we'll try to unpack it as we go along, okay?

Yeah, I just wanted to clarify. Does she not want to escape by the north or does she not want to send to the next sphere by the north?

Okay, all right. So let's go deeper into this. Okay, you're Bakr. Okay, you're in a convent. You're happy in the convent. Soldiers come to you. Okay, let's try to imagine her state of mind. What are some emotions going through her mind? What is she thinking right now? She's in a convent. There's an army on the convent demanding that she go with them. Right? And they're mean. They have swords. They're really mean people. And quite honestly, they could come and kill everyone in the convent, right?

Feel like she's really in despair because obviously as one woman she cannot face off this group of people.

Fear and despair, right?

Yeah, and then maybe she will pray to God because hopefully God will save her, but maybe it wasn't strong enough.

And what will God Yeah, sorry. What will God say to this? You're afraid. You're in despair. You pray to God. Please save me. Please save me. Please save me. So what's wrong with that?

Well, I just wanted to say that God just needs your trust. So if you trust God and you love God enough then you wouldn't fear death and you wouldn't be afraid of the soldiers.

Yeah, that's the problem. The fear is a You understand? The fact that you fear means you don't really truly believe in God. It truly It tells God you don't really want to be saved. Okay? You understand?

Can I ask a follow-up question? So, is it still possible for her to change in heaven? Maybe develop a will to advance or Of course it is.

What's the problem?

Oh, so at first I thought what she did as a human defined where she will go in heaven and No, it doesn't.

Oh, okay.

Yeah. But what's the problem with She doesn't want to advance.

Exactly. Do you understand? Okay? And why doesn't she want What's the reason why she doesn't want to change?

Content or No, it's not because she's content.

But why doesn't she have a will? She's afraid. Do you understand? It's the fear. Do you understand?

Oh, okay. Okay.

Right? It's a fear.

So, she's scared that she cannot advance or Yeah, she's afraid of disappointment.

She's afraid of failure.

Oh, okay. Okay.

Right? So, she's stuck saying, "Okay, well, God just wants me here.

So, I'm just going to stay here."

Yeah. It's a pretext. It's a So, it's like comforting yourself when you got a bad grade or something.

Yeah, it's a very human reaction. We do this all the time, right?

Yeah.

We say we're happy, you know, being the worst student at Yale. You're not. Okay?

Okay. Yeah, I get it. Thank you.

All right. Any more questions or Oh, yeah.

So, I just want to know the difference between the worship and the believe. For example, I believe in God, but it doesn't mean that I worship God because worship is a much higher belief than Does God care if you worship him or not?

Does God care if you worship him or not? Does God care if you're Christian or Yeah, it's also like it doesn't matter, do you understand? What matters are your actions, right? What matters is it is your actions that define who you are. Right? If you are Piccarda and you're, okay, let's use your There's an army outside the convent, okay?

Maybe I won't actually do it, but I will probably pretend to suicide or whatever. Like if you guys dare to come in now, I'll just kill myself.

Yeah, do you understand this? You just stand on top of the roof and say, "Okay guys, you come in the door, I'll jump down." If you're the army, what's your job? What's your job as the army?

To get her safely to the convent.

Exactly, right? And so, what would the army do?

Try to go up to the castle and bring her down.

No, they won't. They'd be afraid, right? Cuz where are they now? No, no, no, I'm saying where are they? What building is in front of them?

God is in front of them, you understand? Who do you think has taken possession of Piccarda right now? If you see a woman, okay, who's like a princess, and she's standing on top of a roof and says, "Hey guys, you come in, I'll jump down." Who do you think you're fighting now? God. You're fighting God now. Okay? And so, they're going to run. Right? They go back to the duke and say, "Hey man, your sister's crazy." What's the duke going to do?

Try to persuade her, but fail.

And then, what's he going to do?

Then go away.

He has to go home now. You understand? He's like, you can't deal with this. But you see what's happened. Just the will. Like, yeah?

This is actually a question directed at something you said earlier. So, you said earlier that your actions define where you are on this celestial ladder. However, spoilers, but in Purgatory are the good pagans. So, the good pagans who did not believe in God, but did good deeds. So, if your deeds define who you are, then why are the good pagans stuck there?

Okay, we have not read the complete Divine Comedy. What you find is that, even though the Catholic Church says that your Christianity determines if you go to heaven or hell, Dante doesn't believe Right? Doesn't make sense. As you keep on reading, you'll find that there are pagans who are in heaven. Okay? [laughter] So, there is no good then.

Yeah. All right. Yeah.

About the imaginative situation that when she says that she's going to fall off the castle, what if the soldiers just think that she's lying and then, or she says that but she doesn't really believe it. Would they still come and get her or would they be convinced by her?

Well, imagine if you were a soldier, what would you be thinking? You mean?

She's bluffing.

Yeah. She could be bluffing. And are you going to take the You're not going to take a chance, do you understand?

Okay, because I mean, okay. I mean, you have to imagine yourself in that situation, okay? You're the soldier. Piccarda is doing this crap on you. Right? You have to think God has taken possession of her. And they are in a nunnery, do you Okay, so the human reaction would be I need to get out of here, man. This is not a good situation for me. Right? Because if I go back and I tell the Duke your sister's crazy and she won't come home, what will the Duke do?

Off with your head.

I think it's the problem with the livelihoods because maybe they're paid by the Duke and then if they aren't paid they wouldn't be able to feed their families back home, I think.

Okay, well, imagine two situations. The first situation is you go back to the Duke and say, "Your sister's crazy and we have to come back." Second situation is "We thought your sister was bluffing, so we stormed the nunnery and she jumped off the roof and now she's dead."

Yeah, the first one's better.

The first one is probably better for you, okay? It's a lot better for you. Okay? So, again, I'm not saying this is what's going to happen. I'm saying if you have the will, there's always going to be a way. And that's something that Dante is trying to portray here, okay?

"This said, she then began to sing 'Ave Maria' and while singing vanished as a weighty thing will vanish in deep water. My sight, which followed her as long as it was able to, once she was out of view, returned to where it greater longing lay. And it was wholly bent on Beatrice. But she then struck my eyes with so much brightness that I, at first, could not withstand her force. And that made me delay my question."

So, Dante has met Piccarda and now he wants to ask Beatrice a question. What is his question? We just spent the last hour talking about it. What question does Dante really, really want to ask Beatrice now?

"Before a man bit into one of two foods equally removed and tempting, he would die of hunger if his choice were free. So would a lamb stand motionless between the craving of two savage wolves. In fear of both, so would a dog between two Thus, I need neither blame nor praise myself when both my doubts compelled me equally. What kept me silent was" So, Dante is very confused.

So confused that he's in fear. Okay? He has anxiety over this. Again, the question is what did Piccarda do wrong here? He's really confused by this. Keep on "I did not speak.

But in my face were seen longing and questioning, more ardent than if spoken words had made them evident. Then Beatrice did just as Daniel did when he appeased Nebuchadnezzar's anger, the rage that made the king unjustly fierce. She said, 'I see how both desires draw you, so that your anxiousness to know is self-tangled and cannot express itself. Your reason, if my will to good persists, why should the violence of others cause the measure of my merit to be less?'" Okay, so do you understand this, okay?

Piccarda, what did she do wrong? She was forced to leave the convent. She had no choice in the matter. So, why is she stuck in the lowest sphere? Okay? Keep on going.

"And you're also led to doubt because the doctrine Plato taught with fine support by souls appearing to return to the These are the questions that within your will press equally for answers. Therefore, I shall treat the most insidious question first. Neither the seraph closest unto God, nor Moses, Samuel, nor either John, whichever one you will, nor Mary, have, I say, their place in any other heaven than that which houses those souls you just saw, nor will their blessedness last any longer. But all those souls grace the Empyrean, and in each of them has gentle life, though some sense the eternal spirit more, some less."

Okay, so this is a really important idea to keep in mind, okay? This is a metaphorical representation of the heavens. In the actual heavens, there is no time and space, so there is no hierarchy.

"Such signs are suited to your mind, since from the senses only can it apprehend what then becomes fit for the" Again, there's no time and space here.

Right? So only by adding in time and space can we truly understand what's going on. Am I going?

"And this is why the Bible condescends to human powers, assigning feet and hands to God, but meaning something else And Gabriel and Michael, and the angel who healed the eyes of Tobit, are portrayed by holy church with human That which Timaeus said in reasoning of souls does not describe what you have seen, since it would seem that as he speaks he thinks. He says the soul returns to that same star from which, so he believes, it had been taken when nature sent that soul as form to body."

Okay, all right. So the idea here is that we all come from the soul world, okay? And in the soul world we come with a purpose and after we die we go back to the same place that we come from. But then this raises the question, what is the point of life then? Right? If you're just going to end up in the same place you started out with, who cares what you do here? All right? Yes, do you have a comment or question?

Yeah, well, through life on Earth you can learn and have experiences and then they can shape you and maybe make you more enlightened and Yeah, but you still end up in the same place.

But well, you could change, right? You can change your opinion by You will basically.

In this world, but back in the old world, the real world, the world of heavens, you're still stuck where you But this is what Timaeus is saying, okay? Not what Dante is saying. Dante would obviously say that no, you can actually ascend.

So, I would say that's a very materialist view of life. So, we're going to die anyways, so why not have fun? If you're stuck there then all you have is every day you can sing, I guess. But here you can drink beer, you can have a wife, you could do a lot of things and that's the fun of the matter.

Why not? You know? Cuz as you say you can't get drunk and throw up up there, so do it here, man. Right? And, you know, have lots and lots of sex, man, and go kill someone just for fun. Right? What's stopping you?

If to these spheres he wanted to attribute honor and blame for what they influence, perhaps his arrow reaches something This principle, ill-understood, misled almost all of the world once, so that Jove and Mercury and Mars gave names to stars. The other doubt that agitates you is less poisonous, for its insidiousness is not such as to lead you far from me. To mortal eyes our justice seems unjust, that this is so should serve as evidence for faith, not heresy's But that your intellect may penetrate more carefully into your other query, I shall, as you desire, explain it. If violence means that the one who suffers has not abetted forces in any way, then there's no excuse these souls can claim."

Okay, so here she's explaining exactly what we discussed, okay? As long as you have the will, it becomes like a fire ascending, and there's no force on our planet that can stop our You understand? Same idea here, where if you really want it, you're going to imagine a solution that's a fire ascending, and then the universe will bend itself to accommodate you.

"So that when will has yielded much or little, it has abetted force, as these souls did. They could have fled back to their holy shelter."

Okay, so yeah, that's it, okay? The reason why these soldiers were able to arrest you and take you back is you let them do it. You agreed to it. Don't say you were forced to do it. Okay? You could have run away. You could have done a lot of things, okay? Keep on going.

"Had their will been as whole as that which held Lawrence fast to the grate, and that which made of Mucius one who judged his own hand, then once freed, they would have willed to find the faith from which they had been dragged. But it is all too seldom that a will is so" Okay, all right.

So, Mucius is a great story. Have you guys ever heard the story of Mucius? All right. So, what happened was the Romans were a small republic and they're surrounded by this huge empire. They were under siege. And they were starving. So, one young nobleman, Mucius, and he's like 20 years old, he suggests that he goes and assassinates the king. Okay? So, he gets permission from the Roman elders, the senators. He swims across the Tiber, sneaks into the enemy camp. And he's trying to assassinate the king.

Maybe I would have to kill one of them. I don't care who is real. I just kill because if I kill any man, it means my will is there, so Yeah, okay.

So, most people just go home or like this way, okay? But Mucius is like, "Screw this. I'm going to take a chance," okay? So, he kills one and of course it's the secretary.

I think he stuck his hand in the fire and said that he's not afraid.

Yeah, that's what he does, okay? He just put his hand in the fire and it's burning, okay? And while this is happening, he's laughing. And the king is like, "You Romans are such crazy bastards that I'm going to go run away now." And so, this part is not a true story, but it shows the power of the will. Whereas, as long as you believe, as long as you are willing to act, the universe will bend itself to your will. Okay? And this is very different from the idea of strategy, right? Or, you know, let's be really, really clever.

"And through these words, if you have grasped their bent, you can eliminate the argument that would have troubled you again and often. But now another obstacle obstructs your ascent. You cannot overcome it by yourself. It is too wearying to try. I've set it in your mind as something certain that souls in blessedness can never lie, since they're always nearer the primal truth. But from Piccarda, you were also able to hear how Constance kept her love of the veil. And here Piccarda seems to contradict me. Before this, brother, it has often happened that to flee menace, men unwillingly did what should not be So did Alcmaeon."

Okay, all right. So, often in life when we make decisions, we often contradict principles, okay? So, for example, this man, Alcmaeon, his father ordered him to kill his mother. Obviously, murder is wrong, but you also have to respect your father, right? Disobeying your father is wrong, murdering your mother is wrong. What do you do? Okay? Often in life we have these moral dilemmas. And keep on going.

"At that point, I would have you see the forces to which one yielded mingles with one's will. And no excuse can pardon their joint act. Absolute will does not concur in wrong, but the contingent will, through fear that its resistance might bring greater harm, consents. Therefore, Piccarda means the absolute will when she speaks, and I the relative. So that the two of us have spoken truth."

Okay, all right. So, this is a really important idea we need to unpack, okay? There's a difference between absolute will and relative will, contingent will. What's the difference?

So, absolute will is I will love God no matter what and contingent will is I will love God and then someone tells you, "If you love God, I'll kill you." And so you say, "Okay, okay, I don't I Okay, any other theories?

Let's say they come from different places. Absolute will comes from imagination, it comes from your own story, but relative will comes from reasoning, logic, you know, comparing outcomes.

Okay, any other explanations? Absolute will, contingent will. What's the difference?

The same as absolute morality and relative morality?

What's the difference between these two things?

So, I don't know, absolute is that no matter what it's going to happen, but contingent it's kind of because I don't want more harm to be done, kind of like what the book Silence is about where the priest, the Catholic priest, in order to protect the Japanese believers said that they are going to not be priests and take wives.

I would say contingent will is constrained by and absolute will is like it's always there, like absolute will is God, basically. The will of God.

And so, how can we describe these things more simplistically? Absolute will is what? Contingent will is what?

Can I answer? Yeah.

Can I answer?

So, contingent will would be the individual human and the absolute will would be by God's display on us.

And what is your connection to God? How do you connect it to God? Through love.

So I would say that absolute will is active. It is the will that finds the way. It creates its own condition for it is unstoppable. Contingent will operates within the confines of the material. It reacts to what is put before it in order to follow itself. But Right, right.

So both you and you are right, okay. But I'm saying add it together, what do you get? Very, very simplistically, what is the difference? Yeah? Did you have a comment or question?

Yeah, this is all not related. I think absolute will would be faith and then contingent will would be belief and one needs justification, the other doesn't.

Okay, yeah.

Absolute will is when you're aligned with God and contingent is when you're Okay, but how can we say this very simplistically?

I'm going to give it a go. So maybe absolute will is perfect and then contingent will is imperfect so if you don't exercise it well, it will be faulty and lead to bad things.

I have a question. Do these two wills, can they coexist at the same time? Absolute will and contingent [clears throat] will.

Okay. So, Dante is putting this very simplistically, okay? What he's saying is that there are two wills, the absolute will, your soul, the contingent will, your body responds to worldly problems. But you can think of the will existing in infinite dimensions. Does that make sense? Infinite So, there's infinite wills.

Oh, yeah, maybe it's just like I remember Bruce Lee once said that try to be combined to harmony. So, maybe in China maybe most people just like to keep balance. They don't like to choose the two extremes, whether you're a spiritual thing or whether a material thing. They just Yeah.

I understand that. Yes, keep on going. Yes?

Well, if you align all contingent wills and create absolute will, you create godhoods or you become gods, right?

No, no, no, you're not trying to become God. You're trying to be close to God, you understand? There's a difference.

But if you can make all the wills of the people objective, then that would be being like God. So through doing that through power No, that's not what Dante would say.

Some other people would say that but not Dante, okay? All right? So the idea here is there are different expressions, manifestations of your will, okay? There's the absolute will which is always in connection with God. And then there's a contingent will which is your choices in this world. And what we're trying to do is we're trying to harmonize these wills in order to become closer to God in order to make the right decisions. Okay? So for Piccarda in her instance, her absolute will was loyal to God but her contingent will surrendered to fear.

So how can we combine these two wills better?

Any response to this? How do you combine these two together?

Well, maybe because why people just feel scared about death is because they don't know where they're going to go, right? But if we know where we're going to go, there must be some kind of universe in that place. Maybe they don't need to be scared about it. The fear just comes from the unknown. But if we know something then we don't think the fear Yeah, that's right.

So historically there've been two solutions, okay? The first solution is knowledge. Gnosis. So just continue to read Dante, explore, and just discover the secrets of the universe. And once you have the knowledge, you lose fear. Right? Because why are you afraid of death? Because you're afraid that if you die, you'll just be nothing. But if you actually know the secrets of the universe, you recognize that death is a release, or it's just a beginning of something else. So, you lose that fear, okay?

It set to rest both of my longings. Then I said, 'Oh, beloved of the first lover, oh you divine whose speech so floods and warms me that I feel more and more life. However deep my gratefulness, it cannot match your grace with grace enough. But he who sees and can, may he grant I now see well, we cannot satisfy our mind unless it is enlightened by the truth beyond whose boundary no truth Mind, reaching that truth, rests within it as a beast within its lair.'" "Mind can attain that truth, if not, all our desires were vain.

Okay, so this is very much a student-teacher relationship, right? Where Beatrice is the teacher and Dante is a student. And as the teacher, what Beatrice really wants is for the student to ask questions, to doubt, to challenge. Because only through this process can a student achieve full understanding, okay?

But that wouldn't solve the core problem of her still being fearful of failure, right? Fearful of

Okay, can you explain some more, The reason why Piccarda was not able to transcend, get to the next level, is because she was fearful at the In life, in her journey, she's still going to get back to that same situation where she'll have to choose, right?

Between a rock and a hard place, right? So, then if she doesn't have the will to transcend that, then you know, you're still not the next level, right? You're still not the next Okay, so that's logically correct, yes, okay? But let's go deeper, yes?

Yeah, so I was thinking that she cannot be redeemed by this because essentially she is doing all these acts of charity for the result of her redeeming herself. So, she's not being genuine about these acts of kindness, and I don't think that that's able to redeem her.

Yeah, but who cares? She's still helping the poor.

Yeah, but then that act would not be totally good because it would be for a selfish purpose. If that makes sense.

I understand, that makes sense. But I'm trying to logically understand what's going on. So, I mean, she breaks her vow, then she goes and helps a billion people live happier lives, right? She's a great Wouldn't that redeem her in the eyes of

Yes, but like No, actually it would not.

The answer is it would not redeem her in the eyes of God. But I'm trying to figure out what the problem is.

I guess my answer to that would be she is pushing herself to do a lot of these things because she's still worried that God is not going to forgive her and then that she's going to end in a bad circle in heaven. So, she is still worried. So, she's still not acting upon that well.

Okay, I don't understand because she just helped a billion people live happier lives. And it's coming from a place of anxiety and fear. She's afraid that God will punish her. But the results are good. So, who cares?

Quality over quantity in this case.

Can you explain what this means?

The [laughter] the fundamental nature of her soul or her being, of her existence in her own eyes, is always going to be that as she progresses until she overcomes this fear of failure. She can help a billion or trillion, she's going to get back to that same You're going to have to choose and you're going to have to choose to overcome your fears.

The way you're posing the question sounds very consequentialist with ethics, like we're caring about the outcome, but this would have been in a time of Aristotelian virtue ethics and so we would be caring far more about the four virtues than the outcome.

Okay, but I understand this. I understand this is a different time, but I'm saying in the grand scheme of things, if this person, Piccarda, is helping a billion people live happier lives, who cares what her motivation is? Who cares why she's doing any of this, right? I'm saying this not in any con, I'm just saying generally speaking, the general principle. Yeah, yeah?

It's the Constantine argument all over again. So, you watched the movie Constantine, so Constantine did some bad things and then he tried to save himself by doing a lot of good things. In his case, it was exorcising demons. And he got really mad when God and his angels can't tell him that oh, you're going to go to hell anyways. And he asked the angel, why can't I go to heaven? And the angel was like, oh, it's because none of the things you did was selfless. You see, Piccarda helped all of these people live better lives, but these people literally have nothing to do with her own soul.

Yeah, but I think this makes me have a question cuz I just want to know the difference between the demon and the God cuz demon also said that I mean to be So, no more demons?

The demons.

There are no demons, there's only God.

Are there only God, right? So therefore I think the God is out to give you something for not really return, but the demon maybe just tries to make a deal with you or maybe just, you know, sign a contract or what?

Okay, okay guys. Okay, all right. So we could be here all day, okay? But let me explain what the idea here is. To understand what's going on, I need to explain to you Immanuel Kant's categorical imperative. Okay? The categorical imperative by Immanuel Kant. And there are three principles to the categorical imperative, which is the highest moral law in the universe. Okay? The rule of life that allows you to be closer to God. The categorical imperative, okay? So, the first idea is you are a reflection of the universe. So, just imagine that whatever you do, the entire universe will do.

She can [snorts] run away and go back to the nunnery. That is a possibility, yes.

Maybe just sharing as much love as she can to her children.

That's no different from making a billion people happier.

Yeah, but it would be more personal and connected to the soul, I guess. Cuz also giving money to people isn't really about love in a way.

Yeah, yeah, but why she being Well, why she loving her children so Why she so nice to her children It goes back to the constant in palm, It's the same thing where Constantine was doing a lot of good by killing these demons and God says, "We don't care." Same thing where, you know, if Piccarda has 10 kids and they all love her and she loves them back, God's not going to care either. The same situation, right? So, I'm saying, "What can she do to redeem herself in the eyes of God?" Yes, and then you.

Repent.

Wow, I'm just asking this question. How can you repent?

If there's free will, then her will should be able to change. So, instead of wanting to be closer to God and thus being in a nunnery, she could change her free will. She change her How?

I don't understand.

Like her will is now, "I will be a good king and a good queen and a good We just said that.

We just said that doesn't work, right?

But that was because she was coming from a place of fear. If she comes from a place of Right?

And so, okay. So, now what's happening is that her contingent will is now harmonizing with her absolute will, which forces her to do what? Yes?

So, this is like prosperity gospel, okay? This is really stupid. This is really entitled. But what if Piccarda just stops begging God, "Oh God, please notice me." What if Piccarda goes, "Okay, I am worthy of this now."

Is she begging God for anything? Well, the solutions that we just proposed like doing all these good deeds, that's a roundabout way of begging to be honest.

But is she doing Was she doing any of these things? Is she doing any of these things?

Yeah, she isn't.

No, she isn't. What is she feeling right now? She didn't have any How does she feel?

She's feeling content, okay? So this is all hypothetical. I'm saying if she really wanted to redeem herself in the eyes of God, what would she do?

Maybe she can increase her will. I do want to ascend into a closer space to God.

Exactly, okay. That's it, okay? Do you understand? The way she redeems herself is saying, "I'm not happy being the dumbest kid at Yale. I want to be some other second dumbest kid at Yale or something," okay? Anything, who cares? But that wouldn't make her redeem herself in the eyes of God. Because now she's actually saying more will. When you do that, you're showing your faith, love, and trust in God. That's what God wants. None of this crap like, "Okay, I'll donate a billion dollars to charity," okay?

THAT'S FINE.

It makes it more alive. Sorry about that. All right. Okay. All right, so let's go on, okay?

"All right. If in the fire of love I seem to flame beyond the measure visible on Earth, so that I overcome your vision's power, you need not wonder. It is so because of my perfected vision. As I grasp the good, so I approach the good and act. Indeed, I see that in your intellect now shines the never-ending light. Once seen, that light alone and always kindles love. And if a lesser thing allure your love, it is a vestige of that light, which though imperfectly gleams through that lesser thing. You wish to know if through a righteous act one can repair a promise unfulfilled, so that the soul and God are reconciled?"

Okay, guys, do you guys see this, okay? She's saying, because God loves us, he gives us free will. That is his greatest gift to Okay, that's how we know he loves us. I'm going "Those beings that have intellect, all these and none but these, received and do receive this gift.

Thus, you may draw as consequence the high worth of a vow when what is pledged with your consent encounters God's consent. For when a pact is drawn between a man and God, then through free will, a man gives up what I have called his treasure, his free will. What then can be a fitting compensation? To use again what you had offered would mean seeking to do good with ill-gotten But now you understand the major point."

Okay, stop. Okay, all right. So, let's try to figure this out, okay? So, Dante asked this question. She did wrong but is there a way to compensate for what she did? What is Beatrice's answer? What is the logic here? Just summarize for me what she's saying.

She didn't do anything.

Excuse me?

With her own free will. She promised her free will to God so that the two are now bound together. So what's happened is that God gave Piccarda her free will and then Piccarda gave her free will to God so that now they are eternally married. Right? If you're eternally married, you can't divorce. You cannot betray the person, okay? So what Piccarda did was not just not keep a vow, she betrayed God.

So yes, and so do you think it's a bit harsh, you I think this is a pretty slippery slope to slide on.

I think this is a logical issue. So you're taking something that's pretty small and you're blowing it up out of context. Everything can stand for something. Piccarda's vows to God can stand for God, and if they can stand for God himself, then he betrays God and it becomes bigger and bigger and that's a Okay, let's use an analogy, okay?

Let's say that a man and a wife got married, okay? It's a marriage. The wife, the husband with some affair. How could the wife redeem herself in the eyes of the Well, actually this is resistive cuz I think a loving affair is kind of a third way, right?

So if there's a third way, then I think the wife should apologize. So the God will forgive the people who apologize.

Okay, so okay, okay. So your wife cheats on you and she apologizes and you're like, "Fine. I forgive you." Are you willing to forgive her? Physically, [laughter] mentally, no.

What can she do to redeem herself in your eyes? If you're the husband and she cheats on you. There's no way. I don't think there is. I don't know, okay?

Yeah, okay. Yeah, there's no one over here, yeah.

So, I wasn't going to say that he can redeem himself. I was going to say that he can only be redeemed when I decide that he is redeemed. He has no choice in the matter. I decide whether or not he's redeemed.

Yeah, go ahead.

I think a better way of framing it is whoever cheats, right, the wife or the husband. In this case, if the husband cheats, right, how would the husband be able to redeem himself in the eyes of himself? As in his own journey, right, as opposed to relative to what cuz this is judgment, right? If the wife needs to judge whether the husband is redeemed, that's her life. So, in the eyes of the husband himself who cheated, how do you get back to that place before you cheated? Right? So, I think I guess the only solution is similar, you break the cycle.

Or you pretend that you didn't cheat.

Well, that's not how it [laughter] works, man.

Well, in your next marriage.

Sorry, sorry, sorry, man.

Yeah, so maybe I want to reiterate what she was thinking because humans aren't God. And so It was what?

Humans aren't God.

Yeah, that's right, they're not God.

But this is a judgment that the wife is dealing with the cheater and she's trying to regain trust. But God doesn't have this issue of Okay, yeah, I understand.

I understand what's up. I'm saying, can you give me the thing you can do to redeem yourself?

Well, you'd change your character and then you would gain trust by that changed character. So, someone who cheats at 18, maybe they don't cheat at 40. So, it just takes time and regain

But how can you regain By not cheating in the future.

I mean, by being a different person. You can't go back in time and un-cheat, right? So, all you're going to do is find yourself, like he's saying and like she's saying, you're just not going to do it. You're going to be a different What's the problem with cheating?

Can we first explain why Look, okay, so you have this random one-night affair. Who cares? What does it matter?

Sure, I think that, you know, just like Clinton used to say, I don't have sex relationship with the girl. But he said I have to have sex. So, a relationship maybe is more than three times for sex.

That is relationship.

That is an evil guy, because for once, I think it's a mistake. It's a cheating only mistake. It can be Yeah, yes.

I think the only way would be if the party who sort of committed the sin, the other partner can see that they feel genuinely bad for what they did, cuz you can cheat and not really care or just surf the internet.

I understand. I understand all this. I'm saying, okay, first let's establish what cheating does. Why is cheating a bad thing? Who cares?

Because you have broken a vow or And you have to redeem or pay in blood.

What vow?

So, if they are married, then it's the vow that they made before God that they're going to be man and wife till death do them part.

And how do they make this vow?

In front of God.

And how do they make this vow?

At a ceremony.

At a ceremony, and what do they do? They speak it out, right?

And they signed it.

They spoke it aloud.

Okay, do you understand?

All right? So, there's now this bond.

So, when you cheat, what you're doing is Have broken it.

You're breaking this bond. That's a problem. Right?

Huge thing, especially in a covenant, right? Because covenant basically means if you break it, you have to die or pay the price. I shall be like the animal that got cut in half. That's the initial covenant that was in the Bible.

That's right. So, what you've done is you've changed the nature of the relationship from one based on trust to one now that is one of suspicion. See, that's a problem. The sex is not the issue. The affair is not the issue. The trust is the issue.

So, this is why being with God is better than being with your boyfriend or girlfriend. Because your boyfriend or girlfriend cannot read your mind. You can try to convince them. You can kneel on keyboard and you can tell them, "I've changed. I promise." But they can choose not to believe you. But the good thing with God is that he can see all of you. If you bare yourself to him, then he can see all of who you are, all of who you have become. And if you have truly moved on, if you have truly become a better person, then he would know it.

Your question you kept asking us is what can we do now? And your answer seems to be nothing.

But what's the problem? What's the problem with Why is it so serious? Everything else is like, "Well, you know, if you just want to change, you'll change." But this is really serious. Why? broken your Your vow to God essentially.

That's right. And so, what should you not do then?

So, I understand that. So, you're just saying once you've broken your vow, then you might as well lay down and die and go to hell. Go to inferno.

Well, no, no, no. The point here is you have free will. So, you can do whatever you want. Do not make a vow to God unless you want to die for it.

So, that was your answer, die.

Okay. So, let's think about, okay? You've broken your vow to God. And now you are in the lowest sphere of What can you do now?

I don't think we've come to an Renew the vow.

Renew the vow. Okay, okay, all right. All right, so let's be precise about this, okay? We have like 10 minutes, okay? And let's really, really try to unpack this. Okay, so you made this vow to God or to your wife, okay? And again, don't make vows unless you're really serious about it, okay? Guys, don't make vows unless you can keep them. All right? No one's going to make you do these vows. If you're going to make these vows, you better keep them, all But then, for whatever reason, you have broken the vow.

Helplessness. I couldn't do anything about it.

Exactly, right? Yeah, I my wife, but you know, I got drunk and she raped me, so it wasn't really my Okay? So you say I'm helpless. Then what happens? Your psychology.

Can't fight himself.

All right. So, I want to be precise, okay? This is really important for you to understand the Divine Comedy. You do something that breaks your vows. This causes you to feel hopeless because you don't want to take responsibility, Then what happens? at the back It's kind of like what Eve did, shifting the blame to the serpent and be like, "It's him that tempts me.

It's not me that wants to do this." And that's what Adam did to essentially human.

Yeah, it's the same thing, but I'm saying what happens to Eve Right? When you blame someone else You lose agency.

You lose agency. And then what happens?

Become passive.

You become passive. And can you ever change?

And you won't be able to change, okay? That's exactly what I mean with Piccarda, right? She made a vow to God. Very, very serious, okay? The most serious thing you can do in your life is make a vow to God. Nothing else beats Okay? That's number one. Number two is she's not able to keep this vow because she lacks the will, she's afraid, it's her fault. She shifts the blame and the responsibility to her brother. And then she just imagines herself forever lacking agency. This makes her passive and it makes her accept whatever comes her way so that when she ends up in the lower spheres of the heaven, she's like, "I'm happy here." Even though she's probably not happy there.

I think on the topic of agency, first she has to take back agency. We've already discussed that.

But she can't. She cannot take back agency. Why? Because her entire worldview is based on her lack of agency. Do you Yeah.

To explain herself why she didn't resist. The answer is she had no agency. And so she's like, "God doesn't give us agency. God demands our obedience." Do you understand?

Yeah, but But so with her worldview, it's not impossible for her to exercise agency because agency is defined as God.

Then change her worldview.

But you cannot change your worldview because it's your worldview. It's like telling a computer, "Change your It's your programming.

Knowledge. Like if we want an AI to change their worldview, if we want an AI to change their views, then we feed them a lot of that kind of knowledge and the AI changes its views. Or she can just go take DMT.

Excuse me?

She can just go take a DMT and And make what?

I want to take a I'm not changing her worldview.

But she's already in heaven, huh?

That does no good in heaven. Yes, did you I'm so wanting to be closer to God, I guess.

Repent and move on. Or the whole lamb of God [clears throat] wash away the sin and then move on. I don't know.

Who is the most important person who has ever Jesus, right? Why is he important? Why is he so consequential? Why do you have two billion people believe in What does that mean?

He can bring us salvation.

Right, okay. So, does it make sense?

Jesus is so consequential because he provides a solution to an impossible problem, which is how do you redeem yourself? Right? Because often you're in trouble because you think you deserve your fate. And for someone to come along and say that I forgive you unconditionally, I redeem you unconditionally, that's the most powerful idea in the universe, okay? So I know it's not satisfactory, but one possible solution is for someone else to forgive you.

Because you can't forgive yourself.

So, what you're basically saying is that she has to wait for someone else to save And who would forgive her?

And who is Jesus?

God, right? And will God forgive you?

Yeah. If you turn towards God, God will always forgive you. So, it's a question of faith, do you As long as you have the right faith, you can always change for the better because you know that God will always forgive you. Okay? So, that's the solution.

And any more questions? Yes?

Yeah, so I think what you have said just reminded me of the memory I always cherish of a Christianity believer who said that don't always try to be like a king. If you want to be king, then if you do something wrong, it's very hard to forgive yourself. But if you just, you know, let God sit on your seat, rule your seat, then you can be forgiven.

Yeah, okay. So, this is something that's really hard for us to appreciate, but our actions change our character. You understand? If you commit sin, it's not like, oh, you feel really bad and you won't do it again. No, it's like once you commit sin, you begin to rationalize the sin. And you do more of it, okay? And then the sin eventually consumes you, and that's how you end up in hell. Hell does not exist outside of us. Hell is a mental construct. It's a way for us to explain away our actions.

So, hell is not taking responsibility and not [clears throat] forgiving yourself.

Hell is not forgiving yourself. Yes, exactly. That's what hell literally is. Not forgiving yourself, and we'll see that when we actually go back and visit the Inferno, okay? All right? But it's important that we first start off with Paradise, so we understand the any more questions, guys?

Such a great married relationship.

Yes, okay. Yes. No. Yeah, that's exactly right. All right. So, that's that, but how Beatrice and Dante interact with each other, I hope that this can also be like that. Okay, our classroom can also be one of constant questioning, debate, open and honest dialogue. All right. Okay, guys. So, that's great. That's it for today. I will see everyone tomorrow. We start at 10:00, okay? Okay, thanks.